[maegnificant]

Being the glorious rabbit hole that this wider hobby is, what is your favourite rabbit hole within the rabbit hole? Mine is not based on the gear itself but on music, and I'll share it with you just to underscore that what really connects us as a group is the passion for something.

As some of you know I'm an avid classical music lover (among a few dozen other genres ), and while I have a very wide interest in period music starting from the end of the Middle Ages / early renaissance to 21st century compositions, I had never looked into style development of any individual composer. Wanting to know what was in a composer's mind and how this developed over time depending on what happened in life I decided to focus on Gustav Mahler; an Austrian composer who played a significant role at the end of the so called Romantic period and together with some fellow composers paved the way for modern classical music. Think 1880-1910.

I decided to listen to his 16 official compositions in chronological order and to add one more rabbit hole worthy layer: Trying to find the (for me!) best performance (recording) of each of these compositions. This means dealing with completely different insights from each and every conductor, the quality of the individual players, the magic of synergy, et cetera. Example: I'm currently "reviewing" Mahler's 8th symphony (his generally least liked) of which I have collected 12 different recordings (based on the best performances according to dozens of classical music critics), ranging from the 1950s to the 2020s. You can imagine that over 7 decades time the interpretation of how a musical piece "should" be played changes bit by bit, as the artistic freedom of interpretation of a conductor has become equally important to what the composer wrote on paper.

I listen to these 12 recordings twice (it's an 80 minute piece...) after which the potential winner(s) will slowly emerge. In this particular case 4 of those recordings have survived the others; mostly based on musical engagement, tempi, and individual "craftmanship" of the musicians. Note that the quality of the recording is not playing any role for me, and I can well end up picking a dramatically bad live mono recording with a lot of coughing as the winner over a fantastic digital and perfectly clean close-miked recording. So in my case it's really about the musical interpretation and goose bumps.

With these 4 potential winners I will do round 3, 4, and if necessary 5 or even more. Sometimes more recordings deserve the #1 spot for me because they're equally fantastic in their own right but in a very different regard, or they're so completely different that they deserve to be played next to each other (for instance, some works exist in a version for large orchestra but also in a version for solo piano). So I will probably play this work, say, 32 times over a month's time before I move on to his next work. I started my Mahler project in February 2023 and will probably conclude it this August. Let's say it's about 10 compositions * on average 10 recordings * on average 3,5 plays = 525 Mahler works in 18 months (=540 days). So, yeah, basically 1 hour of Mahler per day during 1,5 years. A rabbit hole if there ever was one.

Your turn!

drftr

I can only repeat publicly that you are a crazy person and I respect that a lot.

 

[drftr]

I can only repeat publicly that you are a crazy person and I respect that a lot.

LOL! Madness goes a long way

drftr

 

[Valrhona]

LOL! Madness goes a long way

drftr

A man makes the Watercooler worth visiting. Truly.
*Whooping coughs*

 

[Scubadevils]

Being the glorious rabbit hole that this wider hobby is, what is your favourite rabbit hole within the rabbit hole? Mine is not based on the gear itself but on music, and I'll share it with you just to underscore that what really connects us as a group is the passion for something.

As some of you know I'm an avid classical music lover (among a few dozen other genres ), and while I have a very wide interest in period music starting from the end of the Middle Ages / early renaissance to 21st century compositions, I had never looked into style development of any individual composer. Wanting to know what was in a composer's mind and how this developed over time depending on what happened in life I decided to focus on Gustav Mahler; an Austrian composer who played a significant role at the end of the so called Romantic period and together with some fellow composers paved the way for modern classical music. Think 1880-1910.

I decided to listen to his 16 official compositions in chronological order and to add one more rabbit hole worthy layer: Trying to find the (for me!) best performance (recording) of each of these compositions. This means dealing with completely different insights from each and every conductor, the quality of the individual players, the magic of synergy, et cetera. Example: I'm currently "reviewing" Mahler's 8th symphony (his generally least liked) of which I have collected 12 different recordings (based on the best performances according to dozens of classical music critics), ranging from the 1950s to the 2020s. You can imagine that over 7 decades time the interpretation of how a musical piece "should" be played changes bit by bit, as the artistic freedom of interpretation of a conductor has become equally important to what the composer wrote on paper.

I listen to these 12 recordings twice (it's an 80 minute piece...) after which the potential winner(s) will slowly emerge. In this particular case 4 of those recordings have survived the others; mostly based on musical engagement, tempi, and individual "craftmanship" of the musicians. Note that the quality of the recording is not playing any role for me, and I can well end up picking a dramatically bad live mono recording with a lot of coughing as the winner over a fantastic digital and perfectly clean close-miked recording. So in my case it's really about the musical interpretation and goose bumps.

With these 4 potential winners I will do round 3, 4, and if necessary 5 or even more. Sometimes more recordings deserve the #1 spot for me because they're equally fantastic in their own right but in a very different regard, or they're so completely different that they deserve to be played next to each other (for instance, some works exist in a version for large orchestra but also in a version for solo piano). So I will probably play this work, say, 32 times over a month's time before I move on to his next work. I started my Mahler project in February 2023 and will probably conclude it this August. Let's say it's about 10 compositions * on average 10 recordings * on average 3,5 plays = 525 Mahler works in 18 months (=540 days). So, yeah, basically 1 hour of Mahler per day during 1,5 years. A rabbit hole if there ever was one.

Your turn!

drftr

I absolutely love a Bandcamp rabbit hole, especially one that leads me to a new label or artist discovery with a significant back catalogue to delve into over a period of time. Friday night is usually my time for this but as we’ve a public holiday here in Ireland tomorrow, I’ll treat myself to time again tonight

 

[twister6]

Thanks for giving MusicTeck the credit here Rockwell, I appreciate it. I wasn't 100% sure where these units came from and subsequently forgot to think about mentioning them. My bad, I'll be sure to get that right in the future. I do want to make it clear though that when I met up with my fellow Head-Fiers, it wasn't for the purpose of the AME units. I had gotten in some new gear myself and wanted to let them hear it. Getting impressions of the AME units was more of an opportunity thing.



Definitely agree with you that critical doesn't automatically mean honest. I think it's OK to be skeptical to begin with (after all, how hype can every TOTL really be?), as long as someone is also open to changing their mind at the end. Hence why I always like to start all my first impressions with a very strong disclaimer of "please take with several grains of salt". I've mentioned this before somewhere but I don't aim to be objective. I aim to be fair.

As for the vendor piece, I do also want to make it clear that I'm a hobbyist as much as anyone is in this forum. As mentioned, the purpose of meeting up wasn't for the AME units, but rather so I could share the gear that I myself had. I do find it unfortunate that because I'm affiliated with a vendor now my opinions are more likely to be discarded as opposed to when I was writing only at AudioDiscourse.com. That said, I probably should've removed the watermark from those graphs... that's me being lazy at 2 am. I'll go do that now.

And yes, I understand that you're speaking generally here and this isn't meant to be a rebuttal to you per se. Just wanted to add some context and my express own feelings as someone caught between trying to enjoy the hobby as a hobbyist while also being affiliated with a vendor.



Oh this is interesting, I never realized that there was US vs. Korean version. I do like the stabilized wood designs that AME has going on.



I absolutely agree with you with respect to recommendation letters. I do the same myself. For audio gear however, negative reviews do help establish where my preferences lie and create nuance as to why I might prefer one V-shaped IEM over another (for example). Regardless of whether someone has the same preferences as I do, I think the important thing is to ensure there is a body of work to provide context as to why I might say "pass" on a certain product or praise another to high heavens.

Thank you for the explanation. I was also a bit curious about your write up because it sounded like many of these were just not your cup of tea. So, both the tuning and the 'pricing' were not what you expected or personally prefer, yet you put a lot of effort to make a detailed critical write up with a focus specifically on AME iems.

At the meet that you had with other Watercoolers, did you come across any other iems you liked since you mentioned about the other new gear?

Also, just a side comment from my own reviewer perspective Unfortunately, having the official affiliation with either a specific retailer or manufacturer, or even volunteering at CanJam tables while helping a specific retailer or manufacturer, can have a negative effect on the reputation of the reviewer. As an example, many can perceive your critical review post as made by a sponsor you represent regardless of disclaimers you could add at the beginning or the end of the post.

And the other thing, about positive or negative reviews and impressions, it seems that readers (based on my offline discussions) could perceive you as an influencer when you are either over positive or negative or reviewing based on your personal preference which "influences" the tone of the review. Thus, I personally try hard to stay neutral, letting my readers decide if that piece of audio gear will be their cup of tea

 

[drftr]

@F700 roaming the Swiss mountains with his portable gear

drftr

 

[Kerouac]

Did you grow up there? If anyone ever has, that is. Bosschenaar hier and I pass Maaskantje within 2 kms twice a day

Nope, I was lucky to grow up on Terschelling, which is an island up here in the North...

I had a fantastic youth over there, as it's one big playground, with some very nice (for Dutch standards) beaches as well...

I’ve been really busy lately but have managed to get a few hours in here and there with Alter Ego...

When I was looking at your (very nice and classy btw) Italy pics some time ago, I thought (suited up) Scuba Bond had to be your one and only alter ego! But I was clearly wrong about that

Being the glorious rabbit hole that this wider hobby is, what is your favourite rabbit hole within the rabbit hole? Mine is not based on the gear itself but on music, and I'll share it with you just to underscore that what really connects us as a group is the passion for something.

Your turn!

drftr

At first I thought 'Nope, I don't think I have such a thing myself'. But while I was just watching the 'Later... with Jools Holland' show, which I recorded last night on the BBC, I thought 'Hey, this might come mighty close to such a thing?'

Over the years I've always tried to watch the 'Later... with JH' shows, whenever I could, because it's like having a private performance in your livingroom (TV connected to the speakers, while watching) and it shows how good some artists can really be, performing live. Sometimes I even prefer the live perfomances over there, compared to the studio album recordings. I also really enjoy the way Jools connects with the artists doing interviews. Come on, how can you not like that guy? Always sincerely interested (which I can sence in the way he listens to them, asking deeper questions based on what they've just told him). Besides that I admire his enthusiasm and sense of humor. Great shows all over imho! Last night for instance there were some performances of The Black Keys (ft. Noël Gallagher on one song) and (connecting some dots here) Beth Gibbons! Some superb live performances!!!

Over the (many, many...) years I've always tried to watch these shows whenever I could, and they often gave me an immense feeling of musical joy. I've also discovered quite some new and interesting artists over the years, because of Jools Hollands Later...

And for the record: this has nothing to do with his last name! Although I live in Holland myself

Btw, regarding that last album of Arooj Aftab. That album went straight into the '24bit FLAC' folder on all my daps over here this weekend. For these folders I have a strict 'only 350 albums allowed' policy. I thought it would be hard for her to improve on her (2022) 'Vulture Prince' album, but I think that she has outdone herself with this new album. I was deeply moved emotionally already from the start of the first song, and have listened to 'Night Reign' several times, since that moment. Nice to see so much love for her music in this thread as well!

Now back to some cable rolling over here

 

[drftr]

Thank you for the explanation. I was also a bit curious about your write up because it sounded like many of these were just not your cup of tea. So, both the tuning and the 'pricing' were not what you expected or personally prefer, yet you put a lot of effort to make a detailed critical write up with a focus specifically on AME iems.

At the meet that you had with other Watercoolers, did you come across any other iems you liked since you mentioned about the other new gear?

Also, just a side comment from my own reviewer perspective Unfortunately, having the official affiliation with either a specific retailer or manufacturer, or even volunteering at CanJam tables while helping a specific retailer or manufacturer, can have a negative effect on the reputation of the reviewer. As an example, many can perceive your critical review post as made by a sponsor you represent regardless of disclaimers you could add at the beginning or the end of the post.

And the other thing, about positive or negative reviews and impressions, it seems that readers (based on my offline discussions) could perceive you as an influencer when you are either over positive or negative or reviewing based on your personal preference which "influences" the tone of the review. Thus, I personally try hard to stay neutral, letting my readers decide if that piece of audio gear will be their cup of tea

Slippery slope, Alex. One could just as easily argue that anyone running a gear review website that has ads on them makes them a fraud as they're absolutely helped by great and positive reviews as that makes people returning to their website. It's just that we won't, as everyone has their own unique way.

I think it was @Frankie D mentioning last night that it's all about collecting data points really and for me he is spot on. The fact that I count your data points double or triple doesn't mean that's the case for everybody. No offense meant for anyone here!

drftr

 

[Valrhona]

Nope, I was lucky to grow up on Terschelling, which is an island up here in the North...

I had a fantastic youth over there, as it's one big playground, with some very nice (for Dutch standards) beaches as well...


When I was looking at your (very nice and classy btw) Italy pics some time ago, I thought (suited up) Scuba Bond had to be your one and only alter ego! But I was clearly wrong about that



At first I thought 'Nope, I don't think I have such a thing myself'. But while I was just watching the 'Later... with Jools Holland' show, which I recorded last night on the BBC, I thought 'Hey, this might come mighty close to such a thing?'

Over the years I've always tried to watch the 'Later... with JH' shows, whenever I could, because it's like having a private performance in your livingroom (TV connected to the speakers, while watching) and it shows how good some artists can really be, performing live. Sometimes I even prefer the live perfomances over there, compared to the studio album recordings. I also really enjoy the way Jools connects with the artists doing interviews. Come on, how can you not like that guy? Always sincerely interested (which I can sence in the way he listens to them, asking deeper questions based on what they've just told him). Besides that I admire his enthusiasm and sense of humor. Great shows all over imho! Last night for instance there were some performances of The Black Keys (ft. Noël Gallagher on one song) and (connecting some dots here) Beth Gibbons! Some superb live performances!!!

Over the (many, many...) years I've always tried to watch these shows whenever I could, and they often gave me an immense feeling of musical joy. I've also discovered quite some new and interesting artists over the years, because of Jools Hollands Later...

And for the record: this has nothing to do with his last name! Although I live in Holland myself

Btw, regarding that last album of Arooj Aftab. That album went straight into the '24bit FLAC' folder on all my daps over here this weekend. For these folders I have a strict 'only 350 albums allowed' policy. I thought it would be hard for her to improve on her (2022) 'Vulture Prince' album, but I think that she has outdone herself with this new album. I was deeply moved emotionally already from the start of the first song, and have listened to 'Night Reign' several times, since that moment. Nice to see so much love for her music in this thread as well!

Now back to some cable rolling over here

May I ask the significance of 350? 'Vulture Prince' was sublime. Heard it from one of @Scubadevils blurbs. Digging into 'Night Reign' now, those vocals - haunting!

 

[F700]

@F700 roaming the Swiss mountains with his portable gear



drftr

That’s a very good one Joop - HO on the right and LO on the left

 

[gadgetgod]

@F700 roaming the Swiss mountains with his portable gear



drftr

I am having an identical feel now a days with my XD05 Pro

 

[Valrhona]

@F700 roaming the Swiss mountains with his portable gear



drftr

Could the bulk of the weight be from the Traillii Ti.

 

[twister6]

Slippery slope, Alex. One could just as easily argue that anyone running a gear review website that has ads on them makes them a fraud as they're absolutely helped by great and positive reviews as that makes people returning to their website. It's just that we won't, as everyone has their own unique way.

I think it was @Frankie D mentioning last night that it's all about collecting data points really and for me he is spot on. The fact that I count your data points double or triple doesn't mean that's the case for everybody. No offense meant for anyone here!

drftr

Indeed, it is, and I don't want to sound like a hypocrite. I was reflecting more on Caleb's (FcConstruct) point of being directly affiliated with one particular vendor and how people perceive one's impressions in that case. I had a few discussions like this in the past and have been asked by several retailers/manufacturers to help them at CanJam tables, as well as doing "x collab", which I had to turn down after some deep thinking. Frankie is correct, every review/impression is another data point and you need to collect them all to paint the full picture. In the past, Frankie and I also had a few discussions about it at NYC CanJams, which also helped me understand that at the end of the day, your reputation is built on the track record of your previous reviews and your readers following you based on being aligned with your impressions rather than affiliation, sponsorships, etc. Running a review site is a one-way communication where you just share your reviews. Being on Head-fi, and especially in the Watercooler thread, is the way to have an open discussion and receive valuable feedback which I greatly appreciate!

 

[drftr]

Could the bulk of the weight be from the Traillii Ti.

Traillii Ti and the rest of his chain are in the top bag. The rest is spare eartips

drftr

 

[leylandi]

@twister6 You should photograph the products you are examining in a more suitable environment, rather than on the ugly-looking kitchen counter.