[betula]

New Phillips E80CC + Mazda 6V6G, just delighted
With tube roll, this amp just become next level... I was about to sell it, now I am addicted

Very true.
I would have sold the HA-3A at least twice, but rolling better and better tubes stopped me doing so and rejuvenated my growing love towards this amp.
As long as someone is willing to spend the same amount on NOS tubes as the amp's retail price, their ears will be highly rewarded. With such NOS tube set, at that value, the HA-3A is able to compete with some really serious amps.

Two things I have learnt recently:
1, with a tube amp you just purchase some sort of a 'base', a platform which you can significantly improve with good tubes. The retail price of a tube amp with stock tubes is pretty much half of what your amp will worth and will be capable of with a proper tube set.
2, for all these reasons I can't see another upgrade path for myself apart from the new Aegis. That is a little bit out of budget right now, and I haven't even calculated with rolling the plethora of compatible tubes including KT88s and so on. I am not sure if I will ever get there financially, but the HA-3A with some really decent NOS tubes is a killer amp already.

 

[NJoyzAudio]

Very true.
I would have sold the HA-3A at least twice, but rolling better and better tubes stopped me doing so and rejuvenated my growing love towards this amp.
As long as someone is willing to spend the same amount on NOS tubes as the amp's retail price, their ears will be highly rewarded. With such NOS tube set, at that value, the HA-3A is able to compete with some really serious amps.

Two things I have learnt recently:
1, with a tube amp you just purchase some sort of a 'base', a platform which you can significantly improve with good tubes. The retail price of a tube amp with stock tubes is pretty much half of what your amp will worth and will be capable of with a proper tube set.
2, for all these reasons I can't see another upgrade path for myself apart from the new Aegis. That is a little bit out of budget right now, and I haven't even calculated with rolling the plethora of compatible tubes including KT88s and so on. I am not sure if I will ever get there financially, but the HA-3A with some really decent NOS tubes is a killer amp already.

Betula

How true it is what you wrote
When I first started looking to get back into a desktop amp, Luckily it was at and I was able to at Can Jam walk around with my own headphones and listen to different amps, and the affect just changing the amp will create.
Showcases at Can Jam like ZMF where you can use the same headphone and plug into different amps is of SO MUCH value, thank you ZMF team!.

Having done this I had a nice but short list, so then it was look at the stock tubes, the cost of "good" NOS tubes, and then what are the cost of Holy Grail Tubes. (ALL of us wonder what those sound like, Admit it!)

This is how I came to choose the HA-3A.
It tested well against amps similar and even higher in cost.
But as you pointed out it was the cost and availability of NOS Tubes. (no slam to those who like to use new production tubes, as I've said before this is the beauty of this amp, you can do what you want, its not a narrow predetemined path.)
As an example, GOOD tubes for a 300B based amp using 6SN7 preamp tubes, the Power Tubes are usually aound $1000-$2000 a pair and the good Pre Amp tubes range from$100-$500 per tube
For the holy grail, 30's to 40's 300B tubes, they are $10K for a pair, and the Pre-amp tubes are approaching $750-1000 per pair.
For EL34/KT88 tubes, they are also getting up their for NOS, and getting harder and harder to find
The HA-3A as it utilizes 6V6 which are also used in Guitar amps seem to now also having runs on them and I've seen prices go up from even a year ago and availability plumet.
But the what many call the Holy Grail of 6V6 Tubes (the 5992's) are about $500 a pair currently. The Holy Grail (again other reviewers words not mine) is the G73R Telefunken and these will set you back about $750-$900 a pair.
While both are not cheap, much more reasonable than the holy grail tubes of other amps.
And you DONT need to get the Holy Grail tubes to get a great sound on the HA-3A. So as you noted, its reasonable vs other amps.
Taking the cost of tubes and the fact I could hear as example the HA-6A and HA-3A back to back, I chose the HA-3A.
So YES, agree with you 100% in all you have written above.

Changing tubes can dramatically change the sound of this amp.
Inputs into it (DAC's - either Sigma Delta chips or R2R, or going direct connect to a source like a PC or streamer or even a portable DAP) will also have a great impact.
Using good interconnects (RCA or XLR) will also have an impact. I've posted my findings from going from a good copper, to a good all silver (3n-5n) to a great all silver cable for my interconnects, and how it helped the sound.
As you have noted its balancing the entire sound chain end to end, of which the tubes play a part which allows this amp to shine, and while as wrote upgraditis is a thing we all deal with in this hobby, (funny I too have been eyeing the ZMF Lordgwyn Aegis Amp) as I don't have endless funds, the HA-3A with its flexibility, its price of entry and costs of upgrades (tubes and cables) has put it in a sweet spot for me of price vs performance vs value and for now, nope no new Aegis Amp for me, just going to sit back and listen for a while...AND enjoy it, but everyone has their cost limits and wants and needs so YMMV

Thanks for keeping us honest Betula with your posts!

And as always, what I write is IMO, and when it comes to tubes/tube amps, YMMV

 

[betula]

Betula

How true it is what you wrote
When I first started looking to get back into a desktop amp, Luckily it was at and I was able to at Can Jam walk around with my own headphones and listen to different amps, and the affect just changing the amp will create.
Showcases at Can Jam like ZMF where you can use the same headphone and plug into different amps is of SO MUCH value, thank you ZMF team!.

Having done this I had a nice but short list, so then it was look at the stock tubes, the cost of "good" NOS tubes, and then what are the cost of Holy Grail Tubes. (ALL of us wonder what those sound like, Admit it!)

This is how I came to choose the HA-3A.
It tested well against amps similar and even higher in cost.
But as you pointed out it was the cost and availability of NOS Tubes. (no slam to those who like to use new production tubes, as I've said before this is the beauty of this amp, you can do what you want, its not a narrow predetemined path.)
As an example, GOOD tubes for a 300B based amp using 6SN7 preamp tubes, the Power Tubes are usually aound $1000-$2000 a pair and the good Pre Amp tubes range from$100-$500 per tube
For the holy grail, 30's to 40's 300B tubes, they are $10K for a pair, and the Pre-amp tubes are approaching $750-1000 per pair.
For EL34/KT88 tubes, they are also getting up their for NOS, and getting harder and harder to find
The HA-3A as it utilizes 6V6 which are also used in Guitar amps seem to now also having runs on them and I've seen prices go up from even a year ago and availability plumet.
But the what many call the Holy Grail of 6V6 Tubes (the 5992's) are about $500 a pair currently. The Holy Grail (again other reviewers words not mine) is the G73R Telefunken and these will set you back about $750-$900 a pair.
While both are not cheap, much more reasonable than the holy grail tubes of other amps.
And you DONT need to get the Holy Grail tubes to get a great sound on the HA-3A. So as you noted, its reasonable vs other amps.
Taking the cost of tubes and the fact I could hear as example the HA-6A and HA-3A back to back, I chose the HA-3A.
So YES, agree with you 100% in all you have written above.

Changing tubes can dramatically change the sound of this amp.
Inputs into it (DAC's - either Sigma Delta chips or R2R, or going direct connect to a source like a PC or streamer or even a portable DAP) will also have a great impact.
Using good interconnects (RCA or XLR) will also have an impact. I've posted my findings from going from a good copper, to a good all silver (3n-5n) to a great all silver cable for my interconnects, and how it helped the sound.
As you have noted its balancing the entire sound chain end to end, of which the tubes play a part which allows this amp to shine, and while as wrote upgraditis is a thing we all deal with in this hobby, (funny I too have been eyeing the ZMF Lordgwyn Aegis Amp) as I don't have endless funds, the HA-3A with its flexibility, its price of entry and costs of upgrades (tubes and cables) has put it in a sweet spot for me of price vs performance vs value and for now, nope no new Aegis Amp for me, just going to sit back and listen for a while...AND enjoy it, but everyone has their cost limits and wants and needs so YMMV

Thanks for keeping us honest Betula with your posts!

And as always, what I write is IMO, and when it comes to tubes/tube amps, YMMV

Another awesome post; I enjoy these exchanges. It seems, we see the HA-3A in a very similar way; great potential, some limitations but excellent value combined with the (limited) availability of relatively affordable tube rolling options compared to other tube amps. This Cayin really is a sweet spot for people like us, who don't have endless funds but willing to spend some money for those glorious listening hours only good NOS tubes can provide.
I could be happy with this for the rest of my life, but the itch never goes away (Aegis). All in all, I am extremely happy and satisfied with my current setup. From DAC to headphones, I immensely enjoy all components in my chain. These recent posts though kind of set me up for hunt for a Mazda 6V6 pair.

 

[npatrix]

Has anyone used E80Cc with HE1000 Stealth, bit concerned they may be a bit too much. Also a bit concerned about the long term stress on the amp. Currently I am more than happy running the Gold lion tubes, very detailed, wide stage, just curious if I can push the sound to even greater heights

I just got my E80CC yesterday and only been listening with ZMF AO, during the weekend I will try with the HEK Stealth and let you know

 

[npatrix]

Betula

Very nicely written summary

And yes agree 100% that rotating in different 6V6 tubes will change the soundstage, (including L to R, and depth)
Some 6V6's are warmer, others as Betula noted clearer, and my 2 cents with the impression of enhanced soundstage. These tubes could be its just emphasizing a range different than the warmer tubes which gives that impression, and yes yet some other 6V6's are just more neutral and have a better stage period

I've read earlier on many where say the Mazda's tend to be more on the neutral side and allow the Pre-Amp tube rolls to be more of the change and I agree, as well as the Mazda's seem to have a little more clarity, yet IMO still offer a little "bump" to the lows, but not as much as rolling the Pre-amp tubes did.
these by far are my favorite, and I have 6V6G ST type Brimar, Fivre, RAF Blackglass CV509, Mullard and the in the 6V6 GTY style the vaunted 5992 power tubes, and another set of Mazda's
No matter what I roll in to the 6V6 slot, I always seem to come back to the Mazda's (npatrix, great pics, I have the same 6v6G "coke bottle tubes" as well as the 6v6GT type Mazda tubes, and IMO I like the "Coke Bottle, Shoulder Tube - ST - a little more, but it is personal taste as a good friend who came by one day and listened to my amp, liked the GT/GTY tubes I have more.)
The 5992's seem to offer a faster "pace" than the Mazda's and are great tubes, but EXPENSIVE, and lots of fakes/bad tubes out there for the 5992

And also agree with Betula that the E80cc does NOT completely displace the 12AU7's, not everyone should run out and get them.
There are some 12AU7's that are just outstanding in sound, just maybe a little less dynamic than the E80cc.
I'd love to get my hands on some of the Mazda Long Silver Plate 12AU7's that some have described to me as better than the E80cc, but the price of these are just as eye watering as the Telefunken G73R. (Another 12AU7 I'd love to try as some on these forums call it the holy grail of 12AU7) at close to $1K a pair....OUCH!

Thanks Betula for your words above
npatrix, congrats on your setup and I can vouch that setup does sound great.
Agree with you both for what I listen to it takes the HA-3A to the next level.
But it is 100% personal taste as I've had others tell me, to them the E80cc was too much and have I tried "X or Y" 12AU7, as they prefer the sound, and as Betula noted feel its a little more laid back and natrual sounding.
As I wrote earlier, the E80cc will NOT be for everyone but...
Great thing about the HA-3A it is VERY flexible, and can become what you want, with a little work and research.

For npatrix, notice you have the stock from Cayin NOS RCA coinbase rectifier in your picture.
Its a good tube, but rolling through several other NOS rectifiers (I have NOS rectifier tubes from GE, Tungsol, Raytheon, RCA and Sylvania) and found it offered the least amount of change, but still "changed" the sound a little, and for now have settled on a 60's NOS Sylvania tube
NOTE: I have the 25AX4GT rectifier, some who have the older 22DE4 rectifier have written it did NOT make that much difference. Would love to read some feedback for those who have rolled either)

Again all is IMO and definitely YMMV as we all hear differently and are probably chasing a different sound signature.

Great post, really enjoy reading it!

I have the 22DE4 rectifier, I’ve discussed this with Renexx and he recommended to try some Raytheon Japanese Grey and/or Black plates, will research a bit more… because these tubes are expensive and SQ is already at a point that I’m loving it… a R2R Laiv Harmony Dac will be joining the setup… so I need to do one of the hardest things for an audiophile, “just enjoy the music” and stop thinking on the next upgrade for a while, not sure if it’s possible, but will try

 

[Hohenheimsenberg]

Got these for $80 on ebay. So far look and sound good.

I will report back when more testing is done, but tungsram e80cc and the bendix sound clearer and more open than the Raytheon 6v6. Less decay and less bass, but more details.

Comparing it to my topping A90, is pretty similar, except more open, more image, but without the piercing higher mids I get with my headphones (focal clear og, Hifiman Arya V2), less sibilance as well in some songs. Overall more enjoyable sound, except for the lost texture in the bass.

 

[LXMc]

Got these for $80 on ebay. So far look and sound good.

I will report back when more testing is done, but tungsram e80cc and the bendix sound clearer and more open than the Raytheon 6v6. Less decay and less bass, but more details.

Comparing it to my topping d90, is pretty similar, except more open, more image, but without the piercing higher mids I get with my headphones (focal clear og, Hifiman Arya V2), less sibilance as well in some songs. Overall more enjoyable sound, except for the lost texture in the bass.

I just wanted to point out that not only do we share the same tube amp - we appear to share the same cat as well.

 

[Hohenheimsenberg]

I just wanted to point out that not only do we share the same tube amp - we appear to share the same cat as well.

This might not be an amp approved by wifes, but cats do know how good it is.

 

[cinnamonmilk]

All,
About to pull the trigger on one of these and am looking to buy a DAC. I've seen some recommendations in the thread and most are out of my price range. I had planned to purchase a Bifrost 2/64 but some previous posts seem to indicate it really isn't suited for the HA-3A. Has anyone tried a Eversolo DMP-A6 with this? I really want a good streamer and this would double as a DAC as well.
Or any other sub $1000 USD DAC recommendations?
Thank you!

I see you've already made your decision, but decided that I might as well chime in, in case someone stumbles upon this in the future.

I'm a recent new owner of this exact pairing, actually. Seeing as this is my first foray into tubes, I don't have any real comparisons, but I have definitely been enjoying what I've heard during the past week.

 

[mudguardiain]

I just got my E80CC yesterday and only been listening with ZMF AO, during the weekend I will try with the HEK Stealth and let you know

Ok, thanks. All this talk of tube rolling is itching my curiosity. I have also been recommended a pair of Radio Technique half plate 12AU7 from Watford Valves, might give these a go, not hugely expensive at £120 a pair.

 

[Ultron 5]

New Phillips E80CC + Mazda 6V6G, just delighted
With tube roll, this amp just become next level... I was about to sell it, now I am addicted

New Phillips E80CC + Mazda 6V6G, just delighted
With tube roll, this amp just become next level... I was about to sell it, now I am addicted

Hi npatrix. Why were you set on selling this amp? What tubes did you “roll” to? Is this amp comparable to the Feliks Envy in terms of power? Thank you.

 

[Ultron 5]

I see you've already made your decision, but decided that I might as well chime in, in case someone stumbles upon this in the future.

I'm a recent new owner of this exact pairing, actually. Seeing as this is my first foray into tubes, I don't have any real comparisons, but I have definitely been enjoying what I've heard during the past week.

Hi cinnamonmilk, I use the Topping D90SE. Under $1K, it’s a good option. Topping has introduced a few iterations since I bought my model. Check it out.

 

[npatrix]

Hi npatrix. Why were you set on selling this amp? What tubes did you “roll” to? Is this amp comparable to the Feliks Envy in terms of power? Thank you.

I was about to sell it before starting tube rolling…I found the stock tubes to be a bit harsh, now I got a much more warm, clear and resolving, nowadays sound quality has a massive jump.

I never tried the envy, can’t help you on that!

 

[DrDen]

I was about to sell it before starting tube rolling…I found the stock tubes to be a bit harsh, now I got a much more warm, clear and resolving, nowadays sound quality has a massive jump.

I never tried the envy, can’t help you on that
!

The Envy seems to be more powerful (from what I read).

 

[mudguardiain]

Has anyone ever compared the Genalex Gold Lions with NOS tubes. I really like the Gold Lions, very hard to pick any fault with them, detailed, very good bass texture, good bass impact & pretty balanced across the range, maybe slightly dark but that suits myHE1000. Just curious to know if any NOS tubes could make a worthwhile difference. I have read several reviews where users stated the Gold Lion’s were better than a lot of their NOS tubes.