[Geek]

I'm just hardcore spoiled now. Until I hear a digital player that gets rid of the treble/upper midrange fuzz I hear, and the lack of fullness and tone in the midrange, I'm going to stand by my blanket fallacies, because I know that I committed them, but that's to give you an idea of how much I like the sound of vinyl.

It's still personal opinion, and others will of course disagree, and that's all right.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek Until I hear a digital player that gets rid of the treble/upper midrange fuzz I hear, and the lack of fullness and tone in the midrange, I'm going to stand by my blanket fallacies, because I know that I committed them, but that's to give you an idea of how much I like the sound of vinyl.

Sorry but I have never heard anything of the above in my modest CD setup....OTOH in my old modest vinyl setup, and in many others I have heard, if not all of them, the LP background noise and needle friction noise is simple unbearable, I would like to hear Todd's one though to see how different is from those old ones, and I know that for sure a difference will be, but not ot the point of making me go back in time.......

 

[Geek]

Sovkiller,

That's okay if you don't hear any of the digital hash, as I call it. Good for the wallet I suppose! We did direct comparisions between some nice digital sources and the analog setup he had, and I was definitely blown away by the analog stuff.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[fewtch]

For those who've heard vinyl through a minimally decent turntable (>$500 or a good vintage table properly set up), and couldn't stand the surface noise:

Next time, listen to the music rather than the surface noise. Really pretty simple, you just listen to the music and ignore any surface noise, the way you listen to a person's voice on the street calling you, rather than listening to the traffic in the background.

If you cannot do this, then vinyl is probably not for you. If you can do this, you may discover that the music sounds a hell of a lot better than CD -- you won't give a damn about a little surface noise after awhile.

 

[D-EJ915]

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek Vinyl is the format of the future.

No kidding, especially with all the infrasonic bass that's produced by tonearms and such, GREAT FOR RAVES

...haha, turntables are cool.

Oh, I listened to the Linn LP12 or whatever on a *only* Linn system, and it sucked so much it wasn't even funny, my dad's Sanyo turntable sounds just as good, Linn does NOT know how to make turntables...the whole system just sounded bad; I'd always been under the impression that Linn stuff is top-notch, but that system reeked, my NX10 is much better...maybe it was just the room, but it was bad.

My point is that something isn't necessarily good just because it's expensive.

 

[Geek]

fewtch,

excellent point. Another thing to remember is that with a good turntable (even some budget models) and well-maintained recordings, you have very few surface pops to contend with. I heard a hell of a lot of popping on some of the older stuff Todd had from the seventies, to quote him, "I probably listened to this one once every day for a long time." Even the stuff that was noisy and as he put it a bit worn sounded a hell of a lot better than redbook or sacd, imho.

But new recordings which are well-cleaned and put away in special vinyl anti-dust sheaths sound spectacular with virtually no popping at all, which amazed me!

Cheers,
Geek

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch If you cannot do this, then vinyl is probably not for you.

Amen....!!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch If you can do this, you may discover that the music sounds a hell of a lot better than CD -- you won't give a damn about a little surface noise after awhile.

I wish I could, as the sound is good, but the noise is sometimes bigger than the pleasure itself.....

Guys you can rave all you want, and can, about the advantages of the vinyl setup, but you can't stop the progress...welcome to the 21st century, a Digital Century, sorry but analog was the format of the past (RIP) and as such will remain, not the present, nor the future, anymore.....Let's try better to improve the sound of our digital sources instead, trying to make them more life-like sounding, instead of viny-like sounding, sorry guys but LPs will never come back....period....a bunch of people listening and raving about its "advantages" will not change that fact.....The modern world listen digital sources, of course maybe they are all wrong, but this is a fact non of us will nor can change....

 

[fewtch]

LP's won't be coming back as a mainstream format, but they're surviving pretty well as an audiophile format. I could list all the dealers currently selling new (that is, newly pressed, not NOS) vinyl, but whoever wants can find it themselves. And some (not too many but some) bands are still releasing on vinyl... sometimes first before releasing the digital.

This "vinyl vs. digital" is silly. Since both vinyl and digital are available, just listen to what you like -- there's not much to talk about. We all know vinyl isn't coming back into the mainstream, so it's a moot point. Enjoy the music in whatever format turns you on...

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch LP's won't be coming back as a mainstream format, but they're surviving pretty well as an audiophile format. I could list all the dealers currently selling new (that is, newly pressed, not NOS) vinyl, but whoever wants can find it themselves. And some (not too many but some) bands are still releasing on vinyl... sometimes first before releasing the digital. This "vinyl vs. digital" is silly. Since both vinyl and digital are available, just listen to what you like -- there's not much to talk about. We all know vinyl isn't coming back into the mainstream, so it's a moot point. Enjoy the music in whatever format turns you on...

I have to agree with that, and I just made my choice, unfortunately is still not perfect, but it will be sooner or later....everyday is closer.....

 

[Geek]

Sovkiller,

SACD and CD have a long way to go before they can even compete with vinyl as far as organic detailed full sound goes. Even I, a broke college student who has a massive CD collection, can acknowledge that.

The various conveniences of CD and SACD versus the more cumbersome but also more audiophile nature of vinyl balance the two formats out.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[Brandon_Ottawa]

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek Sovkiller, SACD and CD have a long way to go before they can even compete with vinyl as far as organic detailed full sound goes. Even I, a broke college student who has a massive CD collection, can acknowledge that. The various conveniences of CD and SACD versus the more cumbersome but also more audiophile nature of vinyl balance the two formats out. Cheers, Geek

Just wondering...what is the best SACD player that you have heard? ...and was the associated equipment up to par with the source?

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek Sovkiller, SACD and CD have a long way to go before they can even compete with vinyl as far as organic detailed full sound goes. Even I, a broke college student who has a massive CD collection, can acknowledge that. The various conveniences of CD and SACD versus the more cumbersome but also more audiophile nature of vinyl balance the two formats out. Cheers, Geek

I have heard vinyl at the same level I do CDs, and I prefer CDs, now if you have an ultra-megabuck vinyl setup, and are comparing it, with a mediocre CD setup, you are killing it, but I think that it seems that one was much better than the other....

Now IIRC Kevin Gilmore had heard setups at the same level, both overkilling ones, and he may have more elements for the comparison than me at least, and he still prefer the digital ones to the vinyl ones, IIRC he has a very good Thorens table, and pretty good cartridges.
I have not heard an ultra-megabuck vinyl setup, I agree, but IMO the better the system is, the more revealing it will be, and correct me if I'm wrong on that, but then, the friction noise and scratch always present on vinyl, will be more evident, with a good one (I think, and I'm speculating here), and this is precisely what I dislike of the vinyl, not the sound, the sound is very good, but the noise is also very good too, and they offer it added to the sound and you can't separate both....if i can get the vinyl quality without the noise and scratch, it will be the audio Nirvana.....

 

[Eagle_Driver]

To each his own.

I disagree with Sovkiller on many things. For one, the only way that a digital CD setup can sound better than a similarly priced analogue vinyl setup is if both setups are super-cheap (less than $150 for either a CD setup or a vinyl setup). But you'll have to spend extreme megabucks more for a CD setup just to match the musicality of a mid-priced vinyl setup. That's because digital doesn't increase in performance as significantly as analogue does, with regards to the increase in price.

Also, I disagree with Sovkiller on the CD3K: Unlike Sovkiller, I don't find that 'phone all that much better than some headphones that are priced one-third its price - and worse than some headphones that are half its price.

However, I am now of the opinion that CDs will never be anywhere near as good as they should have been - for a number of different reasons: It's all too easy to screw up a digital mastering, by making it too hot (loud). Most of today's digital (re)masters had been mastered waaaay too loud! With such high levels (and there's no desire whatsoever for the mastering engineers to lower the volume), the quietest passages are barely any quieter than the loudest - and the loudest passages are mired with harsh clipping. BLEH! And the earlier CDs might have been mastered from inferiour high-generation source masters. (Take the currently available CD edition of Miles Davis' Kind Of Blue: The 20-bit remastered version had Miles's trumpet piercing my right ear - AT ANY VOLUME! This is a poor remastering job that they did on this CD - but the earlier CD edition of KOB is even worse.)

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by Eagle_Driver To each his own. I disagree with Sovkiller on many things. For one, the only way that a digital CD setup can sound better than a similarly priced analogue vinyl setup is if both setups are super-cheap (less than $150 for either a CD setup or a vinyl setup). But you'll have to spend extreme megabucks more for a CD setup just to match the musicality of a mid-priced vinyl setup. That's because digital doesn't increase in performance as significantly as analogue does, with regards to the increase in price. Also, I disagree with Sovkiller on the CD3K: Unlike Sovkiller, I don't find that 'phone all that much better than some headphones that are priced one-third its price - and worse than some headphones that are half its price.

Well maybe the musicality is greater, to your ears, as you stated, but you have to admit, that the same way, the noise is greater, the crosstalk between channels is greater also, as many other not that good parameters, sorry, but I'm not saying that the sound is good or bad, just that the noise is bigger on the analog systems, and I do not like that noise....period, and I prefer the CD because of that mainly, and there is always noise, this is a fact, everybody have heard vinyl here, sorry, we know what we are talking about.
IM systems of more than 150.00, both the CD and LP, the LP sounds a lot more noisy than the CD, and at the end, it doesn't matter how good it sounds if you have a noise that is reminding you all the time, that you are hearing at a setup instead of music, and that is not part of the music itself....
About the CD3000 issue, sorry, I will not argue with you, first, this is not a thread intended for that, I will not crap even more on it, but this is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, same as I do, and second you are almost alone (if not alone) on that opinion, so I don't need to prove that you are wrong on that.....that was already proved, you will not find too many members that will agree with you on that.......period.
Just for the records, I do not get the CD3000 by coincidence, I was doing a research and asking a lot of people before getting it, all of them, BTW very trusted and experienced members here, agreed on the same headphone, so following their suggestions, I got it, and I was not disappointed with it to the date, all what I have played on it, sounds magic. Maybe there are others better, but not for one third of their price, and I have not heard them, and I have not received the recommendation of them, neither....
OTOH with the difference of many other members, if I would be disappointed, for sure I would said so, and keep on looking for a better one, but I think that after this one, according to the same members that reco it to me, will be, or the R-10 or the Omegas.....period, for the kind of music I heard, I don't even think the Omegas will be better. OTOH all what I have tried around its price or even a few bucks more, have failed in the attempt....

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Sorry, but I've found all factory-mastered CDs to sound unbearably harsh and totally lifeless even out of a megabuck setup. And on even a mid-priced setup, they sound as horrible as 32kbps (not 320kbps, but 32kbps) MP3s to my ears.

I'm sorry that I've gotten into this vinyl vs. CD debate in this thread, but Sovkiller, your remarks putting down vinyl constitute the beginning of crapping on this thread.

This will be my last such "vinyl vs. CD" post in this thread. I advise you to stop this debate in the inappropriate thread such as this one.