[bmichels]

before I upgrade to 1.5 firmware, i would like if those who did the upgrade noticed any new problem or sonic signature change ? thanks...

 

[phiemon]

before I upgrade to 1.5 firmware, i would like if those who did the upgrade noticed any new problem or sonic signature change ? thanks...

There is always this question of whether the sound has also been changed with the new firmware. Please, don't ask that anymore

The answer is and always will be, unless Cayin says otherwise: no!

 

[Andykong]

before I upgrade to 1.5 firmware, i would like if those who did the upgrade noticed any new problem or sonic signature change ? thanks...

There is always this question of whether the sound has also been changed with the new firmware. Please, don't ask that anymore

The answer is and always will be, unless Cayin says otherwise: no!

Firstly, you can roll back firmware to the previous version, so if you don't like a particular version of firmware for whatever reason, you can roll back to the previous firmware.

We had a very lengthy debate regarding whether firmware will change the sound signature of the N30LE. We have clarified many times that Cayin doesn’t adjust the sound signature through a firmware update, we have been very particular about this practice since the original N6 DAP and we have explained our position in previous product discussions (HERE, HERE). We prefer fine-tuning the sound signature of our product through circuit design, choice of components, and adjustment of circuit operation parameters, this is our strength and the basic building block of the Cayin house sound. So if you are asking for Cayin's official position, then it will always be our answer, so there is no point in asking Cayin again. We respect the user's subjective listening experience and will always be prepared to serve as a facilitator.

Regarding v1.5, we added an alternative EQ option, the feature won't kick in unless you enable it in the new PEQ user interface, we didn't change anything audio algorithm or DAC setting, I can't see any reason that the firmware will change the sound signature.

 

[phiemon]

Firstly, you can roll back firmware to the previous version, so if you don't like a particular version of firmware for whatever reason, you can roll back to the previous firmware.

We had a very lengthy debate regarding whether firmware will change the sound signature of the N30LE. We have clarified many times that Cayin doesn’t adjust the sound signature through a firmware update, we have been very particular about this practice since the original N6 DAP and we have explained our position in previous product discussions (HERE, HERE). We prefer fine-tuning the sound signature of our product through circuit design, choice of components, and adjustment of circuit operation parameters, this is our strength and the basic building block of the Cayin house sound. So if you are asking for Cayin's official position, then it will always be our answer, so there is no point in asking Cayin again. We respect the user's subjective listening experience and will always be prepared to serve as a facilitator.

Regarding v1.5, we added an alternative EQ option, the feature won't kick in unless you enable it in the new PEQ user interface, we didn't change anything audio algorithm or DAC setting, I can't see any reason that the firmware will change the sound signature.

Your answers are always so politically correct, you are a great one, kudos for that

 

[The jedi Baritone]

For Sus def to weak.
I was also intersted in Sus and dug deep into the rabbit hole but managed to climb up because i figured out that i need at least a 10k desktop amp to drive them properly.

I then switched tracks and picked up Utopia. I am driving the Utopia from a Feliks Euforia AE with NOS Tubes which also may be the best amp for ZMF HP excluding Caldera.

Nevertheless, traveling with my desktop gear is out of question. A semi portable solution would be highly appreciated. A all in one desktop DAP, with the SQ performance of N30 or above and a little bit more powerful.

Back to N30.
I am still on FW 1.2 and have noticed since couple of days that i have a 100% consistent listening experience when i begin listening in SS Mode for 5 min, then engage Classic Tube, then after 5 min P+ and Hyper Mode.
Before shutdown, i go back in SS Mode.

Maybe it is just placebo because other circumstance have changed, but i thought it is worth sharing.

Maybe Lotoo mjolnir ?
I know is semi portable and I remember it had enough power but I am not sure about that
I remember I loved the sound but then I never listened to N30 N8ii sounded beautiful

 

[phiemon]

@Andykong

Perhaps you have a solution to my problem.

I love the N30 so much that I don't want to do without it for gaming with the Playstation 5. Is there any satisfactory solution to connect the N30 to the Playstation 5? Unfortunately, the N30 is not UAC 1.0 compatible. Are there any alternatives if you think about the connections of the N30? I'm afraid not, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

[ThanatosVI]

@Andykong

Perhaps you have a solution to my problem.

I love the N30 so much that I don't want to do without it for gaming with the Playstation 5. Is there any satisfactory solution to connect the N30 to the Playstation 5? Unfortunately, the N30 is not UAC 1.0 compatible. Are there any alternatives if you think about the connections of the N30? I'm afraid not, but maybe I'm missing something.

Did you try USB in?
Or HDMI ARC via HDMI-C?

I don't have a N30LE, but those are the things I'd try

 

[phiemon]

Did you try USB in?

USB In does not work because the N30 is not UAC 1.0 compatible / the Playstation (xbox and Switch) do not support UAC 2.0.

Or HDMI ARC via HDMI-C?

What do you mean? How is that supposed to be connected?

 

[FooFighter]

USB In does not work because the N30 is not UAC 1.0 compatible / the Playstation (xbox and Switch) do not support UAC 2.0.


What do you mean? How is that supposed to be connected?

I have been thinking about that HDMI topic too.
The problem is about the supported standard protocols and the involved Latency.
There are hardly any DAPs supporting UAC1 so N30LE isn't exotic in these regards.
N30LE features a mini HDMI port but that one is supposed to be used only for I2S streaming to a connected DAC (I've tested that for example successfully with Holo Spring 3 KTE) and not vice versa.

The only way I can imagine is some bridge device like HDMI video - audio splitters which then have to support USB UAC 2 connections.
Not sure these exist and if that ll be a mismatch of price and use case I suppose

Another way I have thought about is Bluetooth receiver function (never tried this with N30LE so not sure that will work at all).
Have read though that PS5 isn't supporting external Bluetooth audio devices.
So then maybe only the TV / soundbar (some Sony Soundbars support transmitter mode) could send some Bluetooth signal to an external receiver device...
I have successfully used such Bluetooth movie streaming setups years ago for example with Shanling M8 DAP or Qdelix 5k before switching to AppleTV and Airpod Max
Uncertain about Latency again in that Bluetooth scenario

 

[phiemon]

I have been thinking about that HDMI topic too.
The problem is about the supported standard protocols and the involved Latency.
There are hardly any DAPs supporting UAC1 so N30LE isn't exotic in these regards.
N30LE features a mini HDMI port but that one is supposed to be used only for I2S streaming to a connected DAC (I've tested that for example successfully with Holo Spring 3 KTE) and not vice versa.

The only way I can imagine is some bridge device like HDMI video - audio splitters which then have to support USB UAC 2 connections.
Not sure these exist and if that ll be a mismatch of price and use case I suppose

Another way I have thought about is Bluetooth receiver function (never tried this with N30LE so not sure that will work at all).
Have read though that PS5 isn't supporting external Bluetooth audio devices.
So then maybe only the TV / soundbar (some Sony Soundbars support transmitter mode) could send some Bluetooth signal to an external receiver device...
I have successfully used such Bluetooth movie streaming setups years ago for example with Shanling M8 DAP or Qdelix 5k before switching to AppleTV and Airpod Max
Uncertain about Latency again in that Bluetooth scenario

Thank you for the detailed post!

About the latency: I actually found that the N30 has quite a lot of delay with the pc. I haven't looked into it in detail yet as I don't use it for gaming otherwise, I've only tested it very briefly. But theoretically it should be fixable.

There is no DAP with UAC 1.0, only desktop DAC/AMP or dongles (W4 for example, but unfortunately no R7 or DC Elite). I have the FiiO K19 here for testing, but it is simply too expensive for me in relation to the sound performance vs. the N30. The N30 clearly beats it technically and in terms of timbre.

Bluetooth doesn't work with the PS5 and I can imagine that the delay would be unbearable.

Can I do something with this? See the output options.

https://www.amazon.de/Extractor-Opt...prefix=hdmi+extractor+i2s,aps,103&sr=8-3&th=1

 

[FooFighter]

Thank you for the detailed post!

About the latency: I actually found that the N30 has quite a lot of delay with the pc. I haven't looked into it in detail yet as I don't use it for gaming otherwise, I've only tested it very briefly. But theoretically it should be fixable.

There is no DAP with UAC 1.0, only desktop DAC/AMP or dongles (W4 for example, but unfortunately no R7 or DC Elite). I have the FiiO K19 here for testing, but it is simply too expensive for me in relation to the sound performance vs. the N30. The N30 clearly beats it technically and in terms of timbre.

Bluetooth doesn't work with the PS5 and I can imagine that the delay would be unbearable.

Can I do something with this? See the output options.

https://www.amazon.de/Extractor-Opt...prefix=hdmi+extractor+i2s,aps,103&sr=8-3&th=1

If you want to use the N30LE DAC you will need a digital input signal.
Afaik N30LE only supports USB as hardwired digital input though it can use different other options like SPDIF over Coax adapter or I2S over mini HDMI as output.
The adapter you referenced can extract an optical audio signal and put it out over SPDIF.
This approach may work feeding devices like Chord Mojo or Hugo but for N30LE you will need an USB signal.
If footprint and money and Latency won't matter you will need a DDC behind your HDMI audio extractor like Holo Audio Red which will convert the SPDIF signal into USB again.
Still it isn't certain if that will work flawlessly

 

[slumberman]

Hey @Andykong ,

I was wondering if you could please forward to Cayin the request to be able to switch off the volume screen when changing the volume. It would be great if we could just rely on the small display up top, as opposed to having to click out of the volume overlay.

Thank you!

 

[phiemon]

If you want to use the N30LE DAC you will need a digital input signal.
Afaik N30LE only supports USB as hardwired digital input though it can use different other options like SPDIF over Coax adapter or I2S over mini HDMI as output.
The adapter you referenced can extract an optical audio signal and put it out over SPDIF.
This approach may work feeding devices like Chord Mojo or Hugo but for N30LE you will need an USB signal.
If footprint and money and Latency won't matter you will need a DDC behind your HDMI audio extractor like Holo Audio Red which will convert the SPDIF signal into USB again.
Still it isn't certain if that will work flawlessly

All right, so as I suspected, the N30 is unfortunately not an option for the Playstation 5, what a shame. It was worth a try.

I just find it difficult to find an equivalent alternative. I have the HD800S for gaming, which I hardly ever use, as I haven't found a satisfactory solution for me. Dongles and common desktop DAC/AMPs (FiiO, Shanling etc.) are not good enough for one reason or another or they are too expensive for use. Chord sounds great, but has far too much delay.

 

[FooFighter]

All right, so as I suspected, the N30 is unfortunately not an option for the Playstation 5, what a shame. It was worth a try.

I just find it difficult to find an equivalent alternative. I have the HD800S for gaming, which I hardly ever use, as I haven't found a satisfactory solution for me. Dongles and common desktop DAC/AMPs (FiiO, Shanling etc.) are not good enough for one reason or another or they are too expensive for use. Chord sounds great, but has far too much delay.

This hobby is a rabbit hole and I fully understand the high standards developing for different sectors of hobbies.
I can hardly stand listening to my wife playing music out of her mobile phone loudspeaker for example
Once I ve been gaming years ago with my PS3/PS4 I was running these through my multi channel stereo system and occasionally connected my headphones to the multi channel receiver back then.
Best bet I suppose for that use case if one is running such a living room setup but of course you might compromise with one or another headphone / IEM plus cabling etc.
As mentioned I have got used to using Apple Gear for movies and quite happy though I know these won't compete with my dedicated headphone / IEM rigs

Last comment: There is high end desktop gear taking Audio + Video into consideration.
I've once owned T&A HA200 headphone DAC/Amp with HDMI inputs.
Amazing sounding device for headphones with many tweaking options, not so much for IEMs unfortunately because of its high output impedance.

 

[phiemon]

This hobby is a rabbit hole and I fully understand the high standards developing for different sectors of hobbies.
I can hardly stand listening to my wife playing music out of her mobile phone loudspeaker for example
Once I ve been gaming years ago with my PS3/PS4 I was running these through my multi channel stereo system and occasionally connected my headphones to the multi channel receiver back then.
Best bet I suppose for that use case if one is running such a living room setup but of course you might compromise with one or another headphone / IEM plus cabling etc.
As mentioned I have got used to using Apple Gear for movies and quite happy though I know these won't compete with my dedicated headphone / IEM rigs

Last comment: There is high end desktop gear taking Audio + Video into consideration.
I've once owned T&A HA200 headphone DAC/Amp with HDMI inputs.
Amazing sounding device for headphones with many tweaking options, not so much for IEMs unfortunately because of its high output impedance.

I think the same, and once you've got used to a certain level, it's difficult to go back.

I play on the monitor at my desk. So there's no possibility of having other connections.

It looks like I have few options: dongle, desktop DAC/AMP or DAC+AMP + HDMI extractor via digital output.
- Dongles cost relatively little and it might be worth it.
- DAC/AMPs cost too much for relatively poor sound performance.
- DAC+AMP are even more expensive and I would definitely have to test them first. Would it be worth it for gaming? For me, of course not as I don't think I can use them with IEMs; they are probably too powerful. So not a good option.

@Andykong / Cayin What on earth have you done to me with the N30?!