[ShaolinGrump]

I want to convert standard RCA line out to a 4.4mm balanced output on a Bravo Ocean amp, or anywhere it comes in handy.

Seems like it wouldn't be too extreme or costly to get a custom RCA male to Pentaconn 4.4 female. Would it work? Am I missing something obvious about why this isn't possible or a good idea?

There is a PW Audio Hugo2 adapter (for Chord DAC/amps) from a Hong Kong vendor, but it's $149. And I have to trust that the fixed RCA spacing is absolutely standard and useful in my setups.

 

[ShaolinGrump]

I learned that line out RCA isn't powered by an amp. It's just pass thru signal. I also learned that standard RCA doesn't ground the way the TRRRS standard does, so there is a potential grounding problem in mixing the two. I found some intriguing new tech though (link below). Specially grounded RCA may be a thing in your future. The Khadas Tone 2 portable amp is now on my maybe I shouldn't wish list.

Khadas Tone 2 Pro MQA Balanced Portable DAC HPA

 

[silent-circuit]

Yeah, RCA isn't balanced, pentacon is. You'd want a XLR to 4.4 adapter, assuming your source has XLR out. Of course, most XLR outputs are going to be fixed level, so that's not going to work in most cases either.

 

[megabigeye]

Seems like it wouldn't be too extreme or costly to get a custom RCA male to Pentaconn 4.4 female. Would it work? Am I missing something obvious about why this isn't possible or a good idea?

No, it won't work. An RCA connection is used for connecting two pieces of equipment, like an amplifier and source. Do not try to connect headphones to this connection, with our without an adapter.

Confusingly, there are two types of "balanced" connections:
1) for interconnects between amp/pre-amp/source, using two 3-pin XLRs for L+, L-, LG, R+, R-, and RG.
2) for headphones using L+, L-, R+, and R-; using a 4-pin XLR, TRRS, or TRRRS (with sleeve empty). Strictly speaking, this is not a balanced connection.
Do not attempt to connect either of these together, with or without an adapter

RCA uses L+, R+, and a common L/R ground. As you say, connecting this to balanced would create a grounding problem-- specifically, a short circuit.
As far as I know, there are no interconnects that use either TRRS or TRRRS. A TRRS interconnect would not be balanced because there are only four conductors.

Each of these uses its own connectors for a reason: so that you don't accidentally plug one into the other.
Khadas' balanced RCA seems to be a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If anything, I'd imagine it would cause more problems than it solves.

 

[ShaolinGrump]

Oriolus BA300S is a pocket amp with 4.4 TRRRS line in and out. It goes well with my Sendy Aiva via TRRRS. That’s why I’m trying to figure out 4.4 options. The Oriolus comes with a short 5 wire TRRRS male to male interconnect.

 

[megabigeye]

Ah, interesting.

I would exercise extreme caution with connecting that amp to pretty much anything other than something with a TRRRS output and TRRRS headphones.
Other than the Khadas Tone2, RCA is designed for single-ended connections only and will cause a short if connected to your amp. I honestly think it's a bad design decision on Khadas' part to mess with that. Like I said, each standard uses a different plug for a very good reason: so that it's possible to visually distinguish them and so that they are physically incompatible.
I'm not sure if dual XLR connections use a common ground. If they don't, connecting them to your amp would likely cause a short circuit.
To be safe, you should ask the device manufacturers if it's safe to use their products together, and if so, if there are any limitations on what sort of cable you can use.

Anyway, I hope I've been at least a little helpful. Good luck with figuring it all out.

 

[ShaolinGrump]

This ChiFi cable is working as an interconnect from Lotoo PAW S1 DAC/amp dongle to Loxjie P20 headphone amp and out to full-sized headphones via XLR 4-pin balanced. The Loxjie has normal RCA as its secondary input so the cable is not passing balanced signal somehow. The PAW S1 end of the patch is 4.4 TRRRS, and built to push balanced signal as far as they tell me.

https://images.app.goo.gl/khAhCgEsDcpuJSFm7

 

[ShaolinGrump]

The braid in the patch cable is 6 wires, three to each RCA connector. Somebody needs to explain if that is correct grounding, redundant grounding, or sketchy and liable to short out.

 

[zeeyen]

I'm keen to know as well.

 

[ShaolinGrump]

@zeeyen don’t use single-ended (RCA) to balanced (4.4, XLR4, etc.) adapters for output. The opposite is okay: balanced to single-ended.

 

[zeeyen]

@zeeyen don’t use single-ended (RCA) to balanced (4.4, XLR4, etc.) adapters for output. The opposite is okay: balanced to single-ended.

Ok so my use case is this:

1. iFi ZEN DAC v2 (4.4mm BAL) = will switch this to "FIXED" (Link to manual here) as I will be connecting to a pair of active speakers below

2. Edifier MR4 = there are a pair of 6.35mm BAL TRS Input. (Link to product page here)

I am looking to use this adapter (pictured below) to this (pictured below) and eventually to the speakers. Will it work?

 

[Chuck Dee]

I want to convert standard RCA line out to a 4.4mm balanced output on a Bravo Ocean amp, or anywhere it comes in handy.

Seems like it wouldn't be too extreme or costly to get a custom RCA male to Pentaconn 4.4 female. Would it work? Am I missing something obvious about why this isn't possible or a good idea?

There is a PW Audio Hugo2 adapter (for Chord DAC/amps) from a Hong Kong vendor, but it's $149. And I have to trust that the fixed RCA spacing is absolutely standard and useful in my setups.

You state you want to connect an 'output' to an 'output'. Instantly confuzzling for anyone who may be able to help you determine feasibility for your objective!

If you intend to feed something a signal coming from the 4.4mm Pentaconn balanced output then it's entirely feasible to go to 2x RCA.
Going the other way 'might' be problematic but then I'm not aware of any device with a 4.4mm 'input' socket.
Either way, you just need to be aware of impedance/voltage mismatch.

 

[zeeyen]

If you intend to feed something a signal coming from the 4.4mm Pentaconn balanced output then it's entirely feasible to go to 2x RCA.
Going the other way 'might' be problematic but then I'm not aware of any device with a 4.4mm 'input' socket.
Either way, you just need to be aware of impedance/voltage mismatch.

ok this is now clear as day.

the MR4 speakers also has 2x RCAs: meaning output from the said DAC/AMP's 4.4mm BAL to the speakers 2x RCA's Input is totally fine.

Appreciate this!

 

[ShaolinGrump]

You state you want to connect an 'output' to an 'output'. Instantly confuzzling for anyone who may be able to help you determine feasibility for your objective!

If you intend to feed something a signal coming from the 4.4mm Pentaconn balanced output then it's entirely feasible to go to 2x RCA.
Going the other way 'might' be problematic but then I'm not aware of any device with a 4.4mm 'input' socket.
Either way, you just need to be aware of impedance/voltage mismatch.

Yeah, line out to output sounds dumb. I wrote that a few years ago.

I was running my earliest collected desktop and oddball portable stuff and trying to mix and match SE and balanced chains.

A few 4.4 input jacks exist. Mine is a little fixed gain subminiature tube pocket buffer preamp(?): the Oriolus BA300s. iFi has some stackable 4.4 chain pieces, I think.

https://oriolus.co.jp/products/ba300s-mkii

This old thread idea was normal old RCA SE line out (like from a DAC or pass-thru on a preamp) to 4.4 input on the Oriolus BA300s. I gave up on the idea, but it pops into my head occasionally for linking stuff in my collection.

Line level SE RCA to TRRRS balanced is weird because ground path is mismatched? I’m still trying to grasp why it could fry something. But I’m pretty sure it’s dangerous to a downstream balanced device if you’re trying to feed it from conventional SE RCA line signal.

 

[Chuck Dee]

Yeah, line out to output sounds dumb. I wrote that a few years ago.

I was running my earliest collected desktop and oddball portable stuff and trying to mix and match SE and balanced chains.

A few 4.4 input jacks exist. Mine is a little fixed gain subminiature tube pocket buffer preamp(?): the Oriolus BA300s. iFi has some stackable 4.4 chain pieces, I think.

https://oriolus.co.jp/products/ba300s-mkii

This old thread idea was normal old RCA SE line out (like from a DAC or pass-thru on a preamp) to 4.4 input on the Oriolus BA300s. I gave up on the idea, but it pops into my head occasionally in linking stuff occasionally.

Line level SE RCA to TRRRS balanced is weird because ground path is mismatched? I’m still trying to grasp why it could fry something. But I’m pretty sure it’s dangerous to a downstream balanced device if you’re trying to feed it from conventional SE RCA line signal.

Concur.