[BlueA]

What are the audio features/consequences of high ohm resistance buds?

 

[samandhi]

Warm buds - FAAEAL Rosemary, Fiio FF3 (original, non S version), Yinman 600 ohm (needs an amp), Rikubuds Saber 3

Treble bright bud - NiceHCK EBX21
(apologies I dislike overly bright earbuds, so I don't really collect too many of these types of tunings. Hope the rest can advise further on this segment).

Some good recs there.

Could you advise a warm bud and a treebles specialist please?

The problem with anyone asking for "treble specialists" for buds is that (as you may or may not know) most actually don't have much treble tuning at all. Upper mids boost are used to compensate for lack of tuning up top. If you use a drop band, or just a peak band and subtract that area using EQ, with most buds you will be left with very little treble, unfortunately.

Having said that, there ARE a few out there that have legitimate treble tuning. Of course, the number one pick for a treble specialist has to be the Moondrop Chaconne (IMHO)... The Yincrow RW3000 also have really good treble as well; though they can be a bit fatiguing if you are sensitive to upper mids because they are also boosted there some. The FiiO FF5 and DUNU Alpha 3 must also come to mind when asking for great treble tuning buds.

As For budget options in this regard, the Lun Sheng Aeolian Bells are fantastic with their treble tuning. One that I have just recently discovered are the Artiste Nightingale. They are a wonderful, and legit treble god tuning. Best of all, they are easy to make at home, and @mt877 has step-by-step instructions for building them.

Most others (i.e. Toneking Green Manba, Smabat M4 & M5 (pro), and etc...) are so boosted in the upper mids that you lose sight of what good treble should be. They are just too aggressive to really enjoy for that purpose.

 

[BlueA]

Thanks you for the whole explanation. I come from a headphones and in-ears background where I had huge rotation from mid-fi to totls. Last year I bough an FF5 as a convenience and I'm still satisfied with how coherent they sound as opposed to hybrids. Now my curiosity deepens, even more with all those DIY shared knowledge found in this thread.

Also I'm very curious on how to tune buds. Aren't the drivers generics? so beyond the case is there a way to modify behaviours. Also do you think something like Dusk DSP in cable would be possible?

 

[samandhi]

What are the audio features/consequences of high ohm resistance buds?

Well, that is going to depend on whether the manufacturer simply added a resistor to make it look like a legit higher resistance bud or if it has a higher impedance rating due to wire wraps of the voice coil.

In the latter case, there are both advantages and disadvantages in play, and it will come down to you as to whether the pros overcome the cons (or vice' versa'). The first pro is that these have the potential to have better separation than lower resistance buds. This is caused by the extra wraps of wire on the voice coil, which will better damp the transducer and make it faster. Separation has always been a weakness of DD (especially in the upper regions).

Another pro is that if you use portable gear, using higher impedance buds will assure that your portable source's battery will last longer. If your impedance is higher, you draw higher voltage but less amperage; whereas on lower impedance sets you will draw less voltage, but higher amperage. But... the exception to the rule is if you have a set that has a very low sensitivity rating. This will cause it to use more battery in either case.

A con for higher impedance is that you need more power to properly excite the drivers, and for them to sound "correct". I say that, but some enjoy the sound reproduced from improperly damped sets, so it definitely has a subjective component to it. But, if you want them to sound their best, you may/may not have to invest even more money into a source that can properly drive them.

So, the bottom line is that a higher impedance set has the potential to sound better (if also tuned right), but definitely does NOT assure that they do. Having said that, I have heard some REALLY good lower impedance models.

 

[samandhi]

Thanks you for the whole explanation. I come from a headphones and in-ears background where I had huge rotation from mid-fi to totls. Last year I bough an FF5 as a convenience and I'm still satisfied with how coherent they sound as opposed to hybrids. Now my curiosity deepens, even more with all those DIY shared knowledge found in this thread.

Also I'm very curious on how to tune buds. Aren't the drivers generics? so beyond the case is there a way to modify behaviours. Also do you think something like Dusk DSP in cable would be possible?

You are welcome!

Before I came here some years ago, I was also into headphones and IEMs (still am) as well. The FiiO FF5 are a TOTL earbud, so if you are happy, you needn't look any further, other than out of curiosity IMHO. But, just know that it is a HUGE rabbit hole, even though flathead earbuds are pretty niche in the overall head gear world.

As for DIY, I have not taken the leap to make any myself, but there are some master class DIYers on here (and elsewhere) that can help you out, or at least point you in the right direction. I will start with giving you the link to the "Flathead Sanctuary" where MANY DIYers frequent, and you can ask whatever question you want to know about DIY stuff in real time (it is a Discord server): HERE

 

[BlueA]

@samandhi Your indications are really helpful, it's like a mini map to support my discovery.

For unknown reasons the FF5 are still in use, truly no ideas why.
No rotation required which is uncommon, it joined my perma collection.
In a world where inears pricing want to reach the tulipe's market status such guilty and affordable pleasures deserve more notoriety.

My next entry would be Pilgrim, wonder how long they last compared to simple buds

 

[samandhi]

@samandhi Your indications are really helpful, it's like a mini map to support my discovery.

For unknown reasons the FF5 are still in use, truly no ideas why.
No rotation required which is uncommon, it joined my perma collection.
In a world where inears pricing want to be reach the tulipe's market status such guilty and affordable pleasures deserve more notoriety.

My next entry would be Pilgrim, wonder how long they last compared to simple buds

Make no mistake, there ARE also buds that will take you into the stratosphere as far as pricing goes, but most of those are DIY people selling their creations. For store bought earbuds, you can get TOTL gear starting at roughly $80 or so, ranging all the way up to about $400. And just like with IEMs, higher price does NOT always equal better sound.

 

[PeacockObscura]

Comparison between TGXear Desolation Sound (130 Ohm, 599 USD) and LREY Aurora (32 Ohm, 140 USD + shipping based on country)​

Disclaimer: I do not own any desktop source. My most powerful source is the iFi XDSD Gryphon and Shanling M7. I have used the Gryphon with Tempotec V6 in USB connection and Shanling M7 with medium gain. The Gryphon had both XBASS and XSPACE on, while the rear switch was in Presence position.

Both the earbuds have Hiegi full foams on.

The impressions written below are relative to each other and not standalone.

Desolation Sound​

• The subbass is noticeably leaner and rolls off earlier - feels unnatural. Midbass slam is just right, but the notes here feel leaner too. Allover the bass is quite unsatisfactory.
• Despite the relatively low bass, the tonality is slightly warmer.
• The midrange is a strange mixed bag. Some parts, like male vocals and female vocals sound somewhat curdled in comparison: narrow, restrained, slightly veiled. The string instruments have a tad bit more bite to the notes but otherwise feel similarly restrained.
• The treble is slightly more energetic and forward, with notes being slightly more prominent in the mix. The resolution is slightly better too.
• The stage is severely compromised in comparison - almost two-dimensional. It is narrow, and closed-in; feels congested and quite intimate. Feels as if there is not much breathing space. The imaging is as good as it can be in that restricted space.

Aurora​

• This is the best bass I have ever heard of in earbuds. Competes with a beautifully tuned single-DD iem. The subbass reaches very deep and is very full. The midbass slams are well-bodied and strong. And yet this region does not compromise the midrange. Absolutely delightful and mind-blowing. I have not experienced any other earbuds having bass that reaches so low and sounds so full. Feels eerie, really.
• Despite the full bass, the overall tonality is rather warm-balanced. The midrange and treble sound relatively neutral with just a hint of warmth.
• Coming from the bass, the midrange again blows the mind. It is so so very natural. The male and female vocals sound full, free, and clear - give goosebumps. The strings also sound similarly natural, just with a tad bit less bite. The timbre definitely sounds more accurate to me. The notes also sound more well-defined and more detailed.
• The treble is slightly less energetic in comparison, but still noticeably prominent. The difference is maybe 10% at most. The notes are well-defined, but the resolution is marginally less.
• The Aurora stumps with its mind-boggling stage. I guess the rear pipe has something to do with it. It is the biggest stage I have heard in earbuds, similar to VE Sun Copper, surpassing it even sometimes. It expands in every direction equally, creating a big and spherical space where the different elements are projected in a three-dimensional holographic presentation. The separation is noticeably better and outstanding.

Yes, it is quite evident that I am heavily biased towards the Aurora, but it truly has the merits for me to go such ga-ga over it. However, I do not know if it will scale as well as the Desolation Sound with sources of higher quality. The person from whom I borrowed it uses a TEAC UD-701N, a 4300 USD source to drive the DS. He also bought the W03 Pro from LREY, which I found better than DS also, but he said it did not scale as well as the DS with the source. Please keep that in mind.

Super stoked for my Aurora to arrive soon.

 

[fooltoque]

Same driver (130ohm bery) with different flavor.
Happy Easter guys

Beautiful.

Both of the 130ohm bery's I have are in wooden shells, with different tuning, and I think it really suits the driver.

 

[baskingshark]

Well, that is going to depend on whether the manufacturer simply added a resistor to make it look like a legit higher resistance bud or if it has a higher impedance rating due to wire wraps of the voice coil.

In the latter case, there are both advantages and disadvantages in play, and it will come down to you as to whether the pros overcome the cons (or vice' versa'). The first pro is that these have the potential to have better separation than lower resistance buds. This is caused by the extra wraps of wire on the voice coil, which will better damp the transducer and make it faster. Separation has always been a weakness of DD (especially in the upper regions).

Another pro is that if you use portable gear, using higher impedance buds will assure that your portable source's battery will last longer. If your impedance is higher, you draw higher voltage but less amperage; whereas on lower impedance sets you will draw less voltage, but higher amperage. But... the exception to the rule is if you have a set that has a very low sensitivity rating. This will cause it to use more battery in either case.

A con for higher impedance is that you need more power to properly excite the drivers, and for them to sound "correct". I say that, but some enjoy the sound reproduced from improperly damped sets, so it definitely has a subjective component to it. But, if you want them to sound their best, you may/may not have to invest even more money into a source that can properly drive them.

So, the bottom line is that a higher impedance set has the potential to sound better (if also tuned right), but definitely does NOT assure that they do. Having said that, I have heard some REALLY good lower impedance models.

Excellent info.

Another thing is higher impedance gear may potentially eliminate hiss in some poorly implemented sources with poor noise floor control.

And probably not relevant to earbuds, but more in the IEM world where we see stuff we super low impedance (eg Campfire Andromeda), these actually pose a source pairing issue due to the rule of eights. For such gear with a variable impedance response in the FR, if the output impedance of the source is too high for such IEMs, it might skew the sound signature of the IEM in question.

 

[mt877]

Thanks you for the whole explanation. I come from a headphones and in-ears background where I had huge rotation from mid-fi to totls. Last year I bough an FF5 as a convenience and I'm still satisfied with how coherent they sound as opposed to hybrids. Now my curiosity deepens, even more with all those DIY shared knowledge found in this thread.

Also I'm very curious on how to tune buds. Aren't the drivers generics? so beyond the case is there a way to modify behaviours. Also do you think something like Dusk DSP in cable would be possible?

I recommend reading through the DIY Earbuds thread. You'll find some good information there. The Earbuds Round-Up thread (this thread) also has some hidden nuggets of DIY information, it's just a matter of finding the nuggets sprinkled in all the earbuds discussion.

Re: Generic drivers? No, different drivers have their own sound characteristics due to impedance of the voicecoil, material used for diaphragm, magnet type and strength, the driver frame design. Do a search for Rary's guide in this thread or the DIY Earbuds thread. It has a drivers listing in that guide with some general sound description.

Here's an example of good knowledge about general tuning found in the DIY Earbuds thread: Info on tuning cotton, horseshoe tuning foams and manipulating the sound.

Here's more information about tuning. Tuning becomes a bit easier if you understand this basic information. The rest is up to you to have fun and experiment. You'll definitely learn as you go.

 

[CT007]

Hey guys - I'm looking for some really excellent WIRED EARBUDS to try, in an attempt to replace my Koss KSC75(best sounding Koss, IMO). I've already tried these, which were OK/decent: Moondrop Nameless, Yincrow RW-9/RW-1000/X6, Venture Electronics Bonus IE/Monk+, Toneking MrZ Tomahawk. Looking for higher end stuff, since these only cost $25 at most...

- Wired
- No mic
- No IEMs
- No sound isolation (best for phone calls)
- Great sound quality

Thanks!

 

[Ace Bee]

Hey guys - I'm looking for some really excellent WIRED EARBUDS to try, in an attempt to replace my Koss KSC75(best sounding Koss, IMO). I've already tried these, which were OK/decent: Moondrop Nameless, Yincrow RW-9/RW-1000/X6, Venture Electronics Bonus IE/Monk+, Toneking MrZ Tomahawk. Looking for higher end stuff, since these only cost $25 at most...

- Wired
- No mic
- No IEMs
- No sound isolation (best for phone calls)
- Great sound quality

Thanks!

May I know your budget?

 

[samandhi]

Excellent info.

Another thing is higher impedance gear may potentially eliminate hiss in some poorly implemented sources with poor noise floor control.

And probably not relevant to earbuds, but more in the IEM world where we see stuff we super low impedance (eg Campfire Andromeda), these actually pose a source pairing issue due to the rule of eights. For such gear with a variable impedance response in the FR, if the output impedance of the source is too high for such IEMs, it might skew the sound signature of the IEM in question.

Oh! Good point on both accounts, and I forgot to mention those things...

 

[samandhi]

Hey guys - I'm looking for some really excellent WIRED EARBUDS to try, in an attempt to replace my Koss KSC75(best sounding Koss, IMO). I've already tried these, which were OK/decent: Moondrop Nameless, Yincrow RW-9/RW-1000/X6, Venture Electronics Bonus IE/Monk+, Toneking MrZ Tomahawk. Looking for higher end stuff, since these only cost $25 at most...

- Wired
- No mic
- No IEMs
- No sound isolation (best for phone calls)
- Great sound quality

Thanks!

It might help if you provide a little more information. What sort of music do you listen to? What source will these be used with? Budget (like @Ace Bee asked)??? Do you have a shell type preference? What is your definition of great sound quality (if you can tell us)?

Having said that, there are a number of store bought brands that are TOTL sound, but are decidedly different from one another. Things such as:

• Yinman 2.0 600
• Yincrow RW2000
• Yincrow RW3000
• FiiO FF3
• FiiO FF5
• DUNU Alpha 3
• Moondrop Chaconne
• Smabat ST10S Black & Gold (150Ω version)

There are many more as well (I am sure), but these are the ones I own and can attest to for sound quality. There are also some pretty popular (around here) DIY buds that you can purchase as well. Each one has their own personality, and you may or may not like them based on your preferences (hence the need to "grill" you; to get to better know what you MAY like)....

Also, the above list will range in price from roughly $60 up to and including about $300.