[Ghoostknight]

Hello, just watched this which was quite interesting

bottom line seems to be, to actually change the speed of electricity you need to change the isolation or medium around the conductor, not the conductor itself...
i thought it was interesting because many audiophiles probably believe in faster flowing electrons with different cables, which might be actually true depending of the overall construction of the cable

 

[Grom781]

electromagnetic waves transmitting analog sound signals travel at the roughly the same "speed" as electrons in a circuit at slightly less than 3.8*10^8ms/s (speed of light).

electromagnetic waves and photons in a toslink optical cable do not have mass so travel at 3.8*10^8 ms/s
electrons do have mass travel slightly slower.

speed of the signal is nothing to worry about unless you're running cables in the hundreds of metres and need it to line up perfectly with something else down to the milliseconds or nanoseconds.

rather if you running cables thing long you'd worry more about electromagnetic interference from nearby other industrial cables that could interfere with analog signals.

running toslink optical would remove that interference.

 

[Grom781]

resistance is when electrons "bump" into impurities in the selected medium. a perfect (theoretical) conductor would be super cooled (so less movement by the molecules in the medium are diminished which decrease the probability of "bumping" into the electrons in the circuit), and you'd have no voltage loss in the cable allowing full energy transfer to the circuit of the headphones.

if a cable is high resistance you'd know because when the kinetic energy of the electrons are converted to thermal in the medium of your cable it would heat up your cable and you wouldnt get the required voltage to drive your headphones. your current would be stable but you would fall short in terms of voltage to drive headphones. (but I assume there would be some safety mechanisms in place to prevent this for fire risks)

 

[Grom781]

although even with a cable with such high resistance, the circuit is still "full of energy" speed is not the problem. but instead of your headphones taking the energy out of the circuit, your cable is

I'd be interested to know if somehow theres a factor im missing. I dont rule it out, it has been a very long time since I was doing circuitry physics.
I'd welcome anyone pointing out any oversights I've made

 

[castleofargh]

electromagnetic waves and photons in a toslink optical cable do not have mass so travel at 3.8*10^8 ms/s
electrons do have mass travel slightly slower.

Electrons are very slow, not slightly slower.

 

[Grom781]

Electrons are very slow, not slightly slower.

my mistake, what I should've said is electrons can go up to 99% C. but yes only this speed when sped up by a high energy source. electro magnetic waves although travel 50-90% C in a typical circuit.

I'll have to have a look online what a electrons can be accelerated up to with an expected voltage in a circuit to drive headphones.

but EM waves are a result of electron flow and I'll be honest I don't understand how analog electromagnetic waves are converted from a digital signal so there but there would have to be a circuit with electrons flowing in it to propagate these waves.
so thats definitely something I'm overlooking

thankyou for pointing out my mistakes. I suspect I made more, I'll admit im working of circuit classes from 10+ years ago

 

[Grom781]

I will also add I assumed the circuit to be running a voltage over it. The drift velocity is very slow of electrons without the presence of a voltage differential; at 0.02cm/s. I assumed this was irrelevant to the question assuming we're trying to play music in this scenario.

 

[danadam]

According to wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_electricity#Electric_drift

When a DC voltage is applied, the electron drift velocity will increase in speed proportionally to the strength of the electric field. The drift velocity in a 2 mm diameter copper wire in 1 ampere current is approximately 8 cm per hour. AC voltages cause no net movement.

8 cm/h is 0.002 cm/s

 

[Grom781]

According to wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_electricity#Electric_drift

8 cm/h is 0.002 cm/s

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/725059/how-to-understand-electron-drift-velocity

like it said "the circuit is still full of 'electricity'

electron drift is not the speed of signal transmission.

 

[Grom781]

please read the whole wiki page or the whole physics forum if still confused.
or point out an error ive made

ill admit, i thought electron drift was so slow due to lack of a voltage differential (i was wrong, but I wasnt wrong in assuming it wasnt the original question)

if you dont read the wiki or the physics forum the super super simple answer is its the molecular movement of the actual electrons but the dont "travel" per-say they're not the signal

If you're really interested in physics thats great but I'd love to explain more but there is no "speed" of electricity when dealing with such small circuits

its the first thing taught in even high school physics.

 

[Grom781]

please read the whole wiki page or the whole physics forum if still confused.
or point out an error ive made

ill admit, i thought electron drift was so slow due to lack of a voltage differential (i was wrong, but I wasnt wrong in assuming it wasnt the original question)

if you dont read the wiki or the physics forum the super super simple answer is its the molecular movement of the actual electrons but the dont "travel" per-say they're not the signal

If you're really interested in physics thats great but I'd love to explain more but there is no "speed" of electricity when dealing with such small circuits

its the first thing taught in even high school physics.

how fast is electricity? doesnt matter because EM transmit analog signals.

question is flawed

does the speed of an electron matter? there is no such "speed" because a wire is a powered wire is a queue of electrons 'drifting' there is always an electron at all points in the circuit.

how do I deliver more electrons?

use ohms law

 

[danadam]

electron drift is not the speed of signal transmission.

I never said it was.

ill admit, i thought electron drift was so slow due to lack of a voltage differential

That's why I replied.

 

[Ghoostknight]

IMO the guy in the video actually describes things quite well:
electrons will "push eachother" forward, this happens not as they push themself "physicially" but the electromagnetic field around each electron will push the next one away (just think of magnets here, since all electrons have the same charge/pole)

Now ... the thing that seems to matter with speed of electroncs flowing is how fast the electromagnetic field around each electron will "travel" with the electron itself, the medium around the cable does change the propagation of the electromagnetic field, since air is a great isolator it does not have much effect on the electromagnet field and therefore lets it propagate more easly, electricity (or the electromagnetic field) will travel faster trough air than trough water (or other materials, like used in cable construction)

If we spin this theory a little further, there is probably also an effect of different conductors near by since the electromagnetic fields will also influence eachother

___

Overall changes are minor, and most of the time you cant "really" control things i think or just to some degree.....
but im unsure and interested in what happens if you have a lot of wire going trough the ground (your typical power grid in the city and in your home inside the walls, atleast if we dont speak of typical high voltage lines) slowing electron flow actually down and then have one meter of cable at the end with a more preferable "electron speed characteristic" , will this act as a kind of theoretical "capacitor/buffer" to some degree before the device? i guess this theory would actually mean it would be preferably to use LONGER wires after your power socket, since these would "buffer" more electrons for current spikes
tho my guess is to really look at things you have to look also at the whole loop...

 

[gregorio]

what happens if you have a lot of wire going trough the ground (your typical power grid in the city and in your home inside the walls, atleast if we dont speak of typical high voltage lines) slowing electron flow actually down and then have one meter of cable at the end with a more preferable "electron speed characteristic" , will this act as a kind of theoretical "capacitor/buffer" to some degree before the device?

Huh, what electron flow? Unless you can actually demonstrate an electron flow in your typical power grid and in the walls of your home (and good luck with that!) then how is it slowed down and what is “electron speed characteristic” and what does it have to do with anything?

i guess this theory would actually mean it would be preferably to use LONGER wires after your power socket, since these would "buffer" more electrons for current spikes

What theory? You haven’t presented a theory, you’ve just presented some made-up incomprehensible thoughts that do not appear to correlate with the proven/demonstrated facts!

G

 

[Ghoostknight]

What theory? You haven’t presented a theory, you’ve just presented some made-up incomprehensible thoughts that do not appear to correlate with the proven/demonstrated facts!

Huh, what electron flow? Unless you can actually demonstrate an electron flow in your typical power grid and in the walls of your home (and good luck with that!) then how is it slowed down and what is “electron speed characteristic” and what does it have to do with anything?

Dude, watch the video... the thing with electronic is that there are much false conceptions (and false explanations, or "simplifications", which actually make the whole thing more complicated and confusing) around it

Like i said, the guy in the video explains it well, and he also proof in his video that if you change the medium around the cable, it basicly influences only the electromagnetfield and still slowing down electricity (or electron flow if you would have watched the video)