[Hypops]

Review sites almost always rate DAPs based on price. So it’s easy to say that the highest priced DAP will get the best review and the lower the price, obviously lesser the positive remarks.

Exactly my point. Even more so, these review sites won’t even bother doing a review unless they receive a free review unit.

It sounds to me like you need to find other reviewers and/or sites to follow.

There have been numerous attempts at ABX testing of amplifiers under carefully level matched scenarios and no one has reliably been able to identify a statistically significant amount of correct differences.

Buy on features you want, anything else is waffle and confuses those who are new to the hobby

The problem is that when reviewers evaluate things like amps, DACs, or other electronic components, they have to contrast them to other gear. In order to do that, they have to emphasize the subtle and small differences between them. Compared to one another, sure, the differences between amps, DACs, DAPs, etc, can be relatively large. But imagine if the comparison in a review was between, say, a $1k set of IEMs compared to a $1k DAP. Obviously the overall sound quality contribution of the IEM would far outstrip that of the DAP. There's simply no comparison. But if you were to compare two $1k DAPs to one another, then those tiny differences become very significant.

No matter what, the overall contribution of electronics will always pale in comparison to the overall contribution of transducers. To paraphrase Paul McGowan of PS Audio, get your transducers sorted first, then worry about the electronics.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Just finished reading the headfonia review, a bit of a mixed bag as far as the sound goes.

https://www.headfonia.com/hiby-r4-review/

The new R4 has a capable sound performance for the price, especially in neutral sound reproduction, speed and clarity. It has a neutral but clear character. It doesn’t sound very musical or full, and it is a faithful device to the recording. There are also very high technicalities for the price, a good amplifying power for most IEMs and not hard-to-drive headphones.

the presentation feels close and in front, providing a dynamic feel but not roomy and spacious. The layering performance isn’t great either, but that is expected from the price and the DAC chips inside.

When it comes to bass, the R4 has good speed and resolution. It has quite a quick attack & decay, which makes it dynamic for faster genres. but it lacks the kick and rumble that some users may prefer. The mid-bass section is hollow and lacks fullness, while the sub-bass is timid.

It will be interesting to read some posts hear about the sound once people get them in their hands.

They are not wrong but not quite right either. Their wordings make the weakness much worse than how it really is.

For example, it is indeed neutral and clear with strong resolution and detail retrieval. But “doesn’t sound very musical” is just back stabbing. One more thing to consider is that this DAP sounds different with DSD and PCM. If/when HiBy implements the ability use DSD signal path for PCM content, one will have that “musical” signature all day.

Presentation feels upfront: yup. Exactly. I think it could benefit from having more depth. Right now, it reminds me of the flat stage of Topping G5 internal DAC. But not roomy? Nah, I don’t think so. The stage can be wide and tall as any decent DAP, not shrinking down like some dongles. But yeah, it’s not 3D and wrap around like my DX300 or the R8II (which I wish I can say “my R8II” )

Bass with good speed and resolution: Yup. “Hollow”, “lack fullness”, “timid”: Nope. Bass attack is more snappy than my DX300, but my DX300 with stock amp is tuned for more bloomy rounder bass response.

I would say the PCM circuit of R4 strongly reminds me of FiiO ESS DAP in terms of snappiness of note attacks and perceived dynamic.

 

[ToneDeafMonk]

They are not wrong but not quite right either. Their wordings make the weakness much worse than how it really is.

For example, it is indeed neutral and clear with strong resolution and detail retrieval. But “doesn’t sound very musical” is just back stabbing. One more thing to consider is that this DAP sounds different with DSD and PCM. If/when HiBy implements the ability use DSD signal path for PCM content, one will have that “musical” signature all day.

Presentation feels upfront: yup. Exactly. I think it could benefit from having more depth. Right now, it reminds me of the flat stage of Topping G5 internal DAC. But not roomy? Nah, I don’t think so. The stage can be wide and tall as any decent DAP, not shrinking down like some dongles. But yeah, it’s not 3D and wrap around like my DX300 or the R8II (which I wish I can say “my R8II” )

Bass with good speed and resolution: Yup. “Hollow”, “lack fullness”, “timid”: Nope. Bass attack is more snappy than my DX300, but my DX300 with stock amp is tuned for more bloomy rounder bass response.

I would say the PCM circuit of R4 strongly reminds me of FiiO ESS DAP in terms of snappiness of note attacks and perceived dynamic.

Bang on I feel the same.

 

[flowerlandfilms]

On an unrelated note, I am a big fan of the colour palettes Hiby has used on the R4, but I was hoping for a Black/Orange colourway. I have pre-ordered the black player with the intention of painting the accents myself.

Does anyone know if the back accent colour plate, and 04 bottom plate are removable/swappable? Are they glued on? Clipped in? Is the bottom plate transparent in any part or is it an Opaque plate with a graphic transfer on the back?

I would like to know how best I can customise it when it arrives.

 

[fish1050]

There have been numerous attempts at ABX testing of amplifiers under carefully level matched scenarios and no one has reliably been able to identify a statistically significant amount of correct differences.

Buy on features you want, anything else is waffle and confuses those who are new to the hobby

No gear is perfect they all have strengths and weaknesses so it is possible for a review to be both positive and negative on certain aspects. As far as comparing the numbers it comes down to can you hear a difference based on how it is tuned. I have listened to hundreds of desktop, home theatre, and portable devices over the last 40+ years. Sometimes you can't tell a difference and sometimes the difference is subtle and sometimes quit obvious.

To make a blanket statement that all DAP's or even amps sound the same is limited by your experience listening to gear. Something I have alot of experience with.

There are lost of places to read reviews or watch youtube videos. If you have trouble understanding a review then don't read it. Move on to another review, but some people do understand or at least can relate to what a reviewer says. Just because you may not understand it doesn't make it BS if means something to other people.

 

[fish1050]

There are a lot of terms I personally don’t understand. Note decay, speed, thin vs. full. As a newb I’d probably need someone with experience to A B test with me and point out what they mean when those terms are used.

They are not wrong but not quite right either. Their wordings make the weakness much worse than how it really is.

For example, it is indeed neutral and clear with strong resolution and detail retrieval. But “doesn’t sound very musical” is just back stabbing. One more thing to consider is that this DAP sounds different with DSD and PCM. If/when HiBy implements the ability use DSD signal path for PCM content, one will have that “musical” signature all day.

Presentation feels upfront: yup. Exactly. I think it could benefit from having more depth. Right now, it reminds me of the flat stage of Topping G5 internal DAC. But not roomy? Nah, I don’t think so. The stage can be wide and tall as any decent DAP, not shrinking down like some dongles. But yeah, it’s not 3D and wrap around like my DX300 or the R8II (which I wish I can say “my R8II” )

Bass with good speed and resolution: Yup. “Hollow”, “lack fullness”, “timid”: Nope. Bass attack is more snappy than my DX300, but my DX300 with stock amp is tuned for more bloomy rounder bass response.

I would say the PCM circuit of R4 strongly reminds me of FiiO ESS DAP in terms of snappiness of note attacks and perceived dynamic.

That is the crux of it, some reviews are more critical than others as we all have our own biases and preferences. I have been a beta tester before, when I try to write an evaluation of something I am testing it can be a struggle to find the write wording to describe something. Dumbing down something technical when you are describing it can be very difficult. That is why when I find a review site that speaks my language so to speak I tend to trust it more than others. Trusting in the reviews has helped me make alot of gear choices over the last 40+ years. I have never been a numbers guy, all I care about is does it have the power to drive my headphones and do I like the sound signature.

You can't possibly get access to every piece of audio gear you may want to buy to demo it so you have to trust reviews to some extent. I don't have the time or funds to import every single DAP I am considering and then ship it back if I can if I don't like it. You also may not be able to return it unless it is defective and I can't afford to have funds tied up in gear I won't listen to or take a financial loss if I can find someone to buy it from me.

 

[o0genesis0o]

That is the crux of it, some reviews are more critical than others as we all have our own biases and preferences. I have been a beta tester before, when I try to write an evaluation of something I am testing it can be a struggle to find the write wording to describe something. Dumbing down something technical when you are describing it can be very difficult. That is why when I find a review site that speaks my language so to speak I tend to trust it more than others. Trusting in the reviews has helped me make alot of gear choices over the last 40+ years. I have never been a numbers guy, all I care about is does it have the power to drive my headphones and do I like the sound signature.

You can't possibly get access to every piece of audio gear you may want to buy to demo it so you have to trust reviews to some extent. I don't have the time or funds to import every single DAP I am considering and then ship it back if I can if I don't like it. You also may not be able to return it unless it is defective and I can't afford to have funds tied up in gear I won't listen to or take a financial loss if I can find someone to buy it from me.

I think this R4 is just fine.

I’m perfectly happy with this pair. Not “for the money” or that sorts of things. They are good.

Just a few years ago, when I started this hobby, such sound is not available at this price. The cheapest DAP at my local store was the FiiO M11LTD, which was maybe over 1k AUD. A decent IEM was the FiiO FD5, which was okay-ish. Both were far cry from the “ultimate pairing” that the store uses to demo: SP2000 and U18S. This pair creates my picture (and obsession) of what good personal audio gear should sound like: detailed, dynamic, easy on the ears, can hear everything, can pinpoint everything, “wrap around” soundstage

Moving forward a few years, these two item in the photo together might cost around 1k AUD or less, and they are not less impressive regardless how I slice and dice it (stage, “dynamic”, “resolution”). I still find it impressive how far this “industry” has moved in such a short time.

Edit: for full transparency, this R4 is a loaned unit. I’m sending it back to HiBy for a review tour after I’m done with it.

 

[fish1050]

I think this R4 is just fine.



I’m perfectly happy with this pair. Not “for the money” or that sorts of things. They are good.

Just a few years ago, when I started this hobby, such sound is not available at this price. The cheapest DAP at my local store was the FiiO M11LTD, which was maybe over 1k AUD. A decent IEM was the FiiO FD5, which was okay-ish. Both were far cry from the “ultimate pairing” that the store uses to demo: SP2000 and U18S. This pair creates my picture (and obsession) of what good personal audio gear should sound like: detailed, dynamic, easy on the ears, can hear everything, can pinpoint everything, “wrap around” soundstage

Moving forward a few years, these two item in the photo together might cost around 1k AUD or less, and they are not less impressive regardless how I slice and dice it (stage, “dynamic”, “resolution”). I still find it impressive how far this “industry” has moved in such a short time.

Edit: for full transparency, this R4 is a loaned unit. I’m sending it back to HiBy for a review tour after I’m done with it.

You are a good example of a reviewer I can trust and your opinion will be a factor in my final DAP choice for sure. The R4 is currently #1 on my list but depending on what deals could be had come November something else higher end may be my final choice.

One of the consequences of listening to my A55 with custom firmware for the last two years is that whatever DAP I choose will be compared to it. This really isn't fair since the custom firmware makes it sound like a much more expensive unit. The A55 is a perfect example how different a DAP can sound simply by upgrading the firmware. The stock firmware and custom firmware sound noticeably different.

 

[nioh]

I think this R4 is just fine.



I’m perfectly happy with this pair. Not “for the money” or that sorts of things. They are good.

Just a few years ago, when I started this hobby, such sound is not available at this price. The cheapest DAP at my local store was the FiiO M11LTD, which was maybe over 1k AUD. A decent IEM was the FiiO FD5, which was okay-ish. Both were far cry from the “ultimate pairing” that the store uses to demo: SP2000 and U18S. This pair creates my picture (and obsession) of what good personal audio gear should sound like: detailed, dynamic, easy on the ears, can hear everything, can pinpoint everything, “wrap around” soundstage

Moving forward a few years, these two item in the photo together might cost around 1k AUD or less, and they are not less impressive regardless how I slice and dice it (stage, “dynamic”, “resolution”). I still find it impressive how far this “industry” has moved in such a short time.

Edit: for full transparency, this R4 is a loaned unit. I’m sending it back to HiBy for a review tour after I’m done with it.

Show us the real thickness of the DAP please.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Show us the real thickness of the DAP please.

It’s chonky

 

[Safeinthemountains]

My son makes a living doing reviews of various products (while he writes his novels), and I don't envy anyone trying to review items that only have minuscule differences...

But, you gotta say something or you don't get paid...

The audio world has been like this as long as I can remember, which is a long time... It's a shame that it's this way but I don't expect it to change. Unfortunately, It does make it difficult to know when a product is actually superior...

Then we come to the point : do everyone need to buy a product that is "superior" ? Or do we just need to buy a product that suits our needs and our personnal tastes ?

In the audio world and in many other hobbies (I know about cycling, and photography as well), some people loose track... They are no more looking for something good enough for them, but for the ultimate product that will "enlighten" their lives and finally the can get rid of all ot their lack of satisfaction.

We all risk to end up being never satisfied, while always running after "something better", or the product that almost nobody can afford...
I don't say here that high-end stuff is bull, I just say that if you think twice, most of the DAP's sarting from 300 $/€ are already 99% perfect in terms of figures and performance. The rest is up to personnal taste.

Our human brain is always aiming for "more" or "better", and that's a trap in our modern society; we focus more on the means, the technology, than the goal ; listen to the Music, and enjoy it !

 

[fish1050]

Then we come to the point : do everyone need to buy a product that is "superior" ? Or do we just need to buy a product that suits our needs and our personnal tastes ?

In the audio world and in many other hobbies (I know about cycling, and photography as well), some people loose track... They are no more looking for something good enough for them, but for the ultimate product that will "enlighten" their lives and finally the can get rid of all ot their lack of satisfaction.

We all risk to end up being never satisfied, while always running after "something better", or the product that almost nobody can afford...
I don't say here that high-end stuff is bull, I just say that if you think twice, most of the DAP's sarting from 300 $/€ are already 99% perfect in terms of figures and performance. The rest is up to personnal taste.

Our human brain is always aiming for "more" or "better", and that's a trap in our modern society; we focus more on the means, the technology, than the goal ; listen to the Music, and enjoy it !

I can relate as I am struggling with good enough vs well maybe not life changing, but maybe a level higher than I have experienced before in a DAP. Do I just get an R4 or do I stretch and go with something higher end. Retiring soon I am more inclined to aim a little higher since I will have more time to really appreciate what I am listening to.

I am doing the research now to enjoy the end result down the road. I don't want to be hunting for another DAP a year from now. This next one needs to last me for several years so I am being very picky about what DAP comes next.

 

[Safeinthemountains]

I can relate as I am struggling with good enough vs well maybe not life changing, but maybe a level higher than I have experienced before in a DAP. Do I just get an R4 or do I stretch and go with something higher end. Retiring soon I am more inclined to aim a little higher since I will have more time to really appreciate what I am listening to.

I am doing the research now to enjoy the end result down the road. I don't want to be hunting for another DAP a year from now. This next one needs to last me for several years so I am being very picky about what DAP comes next.

OK, I'm far from being retired... But I think I see this hobby the same way; try to find the "sweet spot" of audio gear at a certain time (today) and stick with it as long as possible.
It is true that in the past I've been frustrated not to have this feature or this other one, and I made compromises. Then comes up a new device that has "more" than the one you're using; is it worth "upgrading" ? And most of the time there is a trade-off; you have to give up on some points...

I liked a lot my very first Android DAP, the R5, it is really compact, it is still supporting all the audio apps I need (Deezer, Vradio, Tunein, SomaFM, Bandcamp, SoundCloud...), the SQ is really good, the power (>500mW/32ohms) is more than enough, and battery life "was" great for such small and versatile device.
But il has always been sounding quite "dry" to my ears, at least in comparison with the R3 I have as well. And the Wifi range is really poor so that the streaming has some hiccups when I am at the 1st floor of the house, typically in the bedroom...

After 3.5 years of R5, last summer I first bought an M3U, hoping the sound will be a bit "warmer" and the wifi better; it sounds better to my ears, but the Wifi is not that different from R5, and battery life is not as good as promised. Still a great unit, anyway !
Then I bought a used R5G2; didn't like the design AT ALL, but on paper it was the perfect DAP for me; ESS9219 DACs, Class A/AB switch, fantastic battery life, and the Wifi is working a lot better, no suddent signal loss.
The only thing that worries me is the SD425 / 2Go / Android 8.1 combination. Although the OS is quite smooth and reactive, it shows some latencies with Deezer App (that is probably not optimized at all), and I think there will be some limitations with app support in a few years

The friend of mine that sold be the R5G2 is about to sell his R6III for 300€, which is a nice price. I will gain Android 12, SD665... but it is bulkier I'll end up with 10-12 hours of battery life... I also prefer volume buttons to volume wheel in general.

Then comes this R4; as with the R5G2 (and also the R6III) I don't particulary like the design, but it's a minor detail. For 250€, I could have recent chipset, Android12, good enough ESS DAC, Class A output... But at a cost; the real battery life will be at most 10 hours... and will degrade over time...

So, I think the best for me is to wait until they upgrade the R5G2, hoping they will stick with the outstanding battery life, or at least 15-20 hrs promised...

 

[Safeinthemountains]

Then we come to the point : do everyone need to buy a product that is "superior" ? Or do we just need to buy a product that suits our needs and our personnal tastes ?

In the audio world and in many other hobbies (I know about cycling, and photography as well), some people loose track... They are no more looking for something good enough for them, but for the ultimate product that will "enlighten" their lives and finally the can get rid of all ot their lack of satisfaction.

We all risk to end up being never satisfied, while always running after "something better", or the product that almost nobody can afford...
I don't say here that high-end stuff is bull, I just say that if you think twice, most of the DAP's sarting from 300 $/€ are already 99% perfect in terms of figures and performance. The rest is up to personnal taste.

Our human brain is always aiming for "more" or "better", and that's a trap in our modern society; we focus more on the means, the technology, than the goal ; listen to the Music, and enjoy it !

I would just add; if like me you question yourself about sustainability and of this never ending quest for more, better, faster, stronger...
Try to search for "Striatum" on the web, together with terms like "marketing", or "addiction"
I don't have easy access to articles written in english from here, but there is already a lot of literature about it in french.

 

[o0genesis0o]

I can relate as I am struggling with good enough vs well maybe not life changing, but maybe a level higher than I have experienced before in a DAP. Do I just get an R4 or do I stretch and go with something higher end. Retiring soon I am more inclined to aim a little higher since I will have more time to really appreciate what I am listening to.

I am doing the research now to enjoy the end result down the road. I don't want to be hunting for another DAP a year from now. This next one needs to last me for several years so I am being very picky about what DAP comes next.

My strategy is to spend a bit more right now to avoid paying again in near future. Sound-wise, I would try to go for the R6 Pro2. However, that DAP has poorer battery than this R4.

Ideally, I would save up for R8ii, but asking someone considering R4 to go for R8ii is nut