[shabta]

Yes, I'm looking forward to hearing the Composer - as a paid-up member of the AKG appreciation society ...

As someone who loves both the HD800, the HD800S and The Composer...
The Composer is the significantly better headphone. However, if all I did was listen to Symphony and Chamber music, I would stick with the HD800 or the S, but slightly in favor of the former.

Other kinds of acoustic music it is generally the composer. For example Miles Davis, Kind of Blue, the bass reproduction and the weight of the drums is more satisfying on the composer.

But if you couldn't get an HD800 (or S), the Composer is still quite good for classical music.

The susvara needs significant amplification to sound dynamic, but properly (and very expensively) amped is generally better then the HD800 (S).

I am surprised by your dissatisfaction with the Stax 009S, I think it has more in common with the HD800S than not. But I suppose there is something to what you are saying. You tradeoff a little in dynamics with the 009S iand in return get a veryu delicate treble response. YMMV of course.

 

[steve468]

For what it's worth, I think there's probably something in this. I don't listen to genres other than classical but accept that the phones I've enjoyed over the years are often not preferred by those who listen to other kinds of music - and phones recommended by those same people are often (in my opinion) simply dreadful. I'm convinced we're not all looking for even remotely the same thing when it comes to phones.

Re classical music (and I would guess most recordings of acoustic instrument performances) I would also suggest that, if you find the HD800S appealing, you're unlikely to be satisfied with planars or e-stats. Having owned a wide range of phones that's been my experience - and the experience of others I know. I find the SR-009S, Susvara and Elite good - for example - polite and tidy. But they don't present information like dynamic speakers - and there's more to accurately reproducing instrument timbre I think than can be achieved by planar membranes. Amplification for e-stats is also expensive and limited in range. If you're like me, you will ultimately find planars and e-stats devoid of life. Once again, for what it's worth, if you're attracted to the HD800S presentation but interested in other possibilities there are other (cheaper) options more likely to please. Beyerdynamic and Focal are interesting - although significantly less convincing I think than the HD800S. The only other current model I find competitive is the Audio Technica ADX5000 - it does seem to offer something extra with some recordings. It's comparable to the HD800S in terms of cost (at least in Australia) - so perhaps worth an audition. That said, I would be inclined to stay with the HD800S and spend the money saved on good recordings.

Have you heard ZMF Caldera? I might still take HD800S for large orchestral, but for chamber and solo stuff it may be better. It’s surprisingly dynamic and life-like on real instruments. I’d say it’s the 2nd best headphone I’ve heard for classical - dynamic, planar or e-stat. Otherwise I hear what you’re saying with lifeless planars.

Mind you, it’s almost silly to look at other headphones if all you listen to is classical. The HD800S is so good with that, and so relatively reasonable price-wise, it’s basically set it and forget it. Spending on system synergy would be the better option. In my opinion, to my ears, yada yada.

(Side note - haven’t heard ADX5000 or Composer, but definitely don’t look at Focal for classical! Clear and Utopia sound too plasticky and small for real instruments, to my ears)

 

[jamesjames]

I must confess I'm no fan of Focal phones - but they're popular, including with some who listen to classical music. Re the HD800/S issue, I've flip-flopped over the years myself - my preference for the S depends on removal of dust covers - and then seems to a touch more natural to me. I'm increasingly impressed by the ADX5000 - responds particularly well to crossfeed I think. The SR-009S is very fine I think - just not quite as good as the HD800S or ADX5000 to my ear. The Susvara, to my ear, suffers from the typical planar 'synthetic' character. I speculate this is a result of high Q resonance that affects the audible range. Interestingly, the Elite measures much better at higher frequencies (re time domain performance) and, to my ear, sounds better in that respect. On the other hand, it's way too warm for me.

 

[Kunal1991]

I am genuinely curious to know how the HE1000SE(Not Stealth) compares to the wide soundstage and precise imaging of the HD800S.

Some say the Sennheiser is still better at both.

 

[fidgeraldo]

The Composer is the significantly better headphone.

It's completely individual, and I would disagree with that. "Better" sounds more like "Butter."
I didn't prefer the sound profile of the Composer. And I would never change HD800S or HD820.

I can understand why people can like it...but, it's better...completely individual opinion.
Recently, I got AUDEZE CRBN, for jazz and classical music heaven.
Huh, I couldn't even imagine what was coming.

Composer, for me, with these three, has nothing to offer that would make me want to buy a pair, ever.

Cheers!

 

[steve468]

I am genuinely curious to know how the HE1000SE(Not Stealth) compares to the wide soundstage and precise imaging of the HD800S.

Some say the Sennheiser is still better at both.

I had both side by side for almost a year until a week ago (traded in the HE1000SE). If you want wide soundstage and precise imaging, the Senn has it. But the Hifiman does have some pluses. HE1000SE's tonality is better suited to EDM or the like - more tilted to sub bass and upper treble.

 

[Kunal1991]

I had both side by side for almost a year until a week ago (traded in the HE1000SE). If you want wide soundstage and precise imaging, the Senn has it. But the Hifiman does have some pluses. HE1000SE's tonality is better suited to EDM or the like - more tilted to sub bass and upper treble.

If EDM is what I wanted to listen to, I'd prefer something like an Audeze. I don't think there's much application of a wide soundstage in EDM.
I tried listening to EDM on my Edition XS, and the bass still comes up short.
For HD800 I would definitely use it for a wide range of music(but not EDM!)

 

[steve468]

If EDM is what I wanted to listen to, I'd prefer something like an Audeze. I don't think there's much application of a wide soundstage in EDM.
I tried listening to EDM on my Edition XS, and the bass still comes up short.
For HD800 I would definitely use it for a wide range of music(but not EDM!)

I don't really listen to EDM, I just wanted to be balanced in my commentary

 

[Whazzzup]

Just so’s you knows, Edm sounds just fine to me. Matter of fact bass shines through and most imagery is provided by hd800S snappy mids. I’d say hd800S excels at Edm. But imo and my system.

 

[shabta]

It's completely individual, and I would disagree with that. "Better" sounds more like "Butter."
I didn't prefer the sound profile of the Composer. And I would never change HD800S or HD820.

I can understand why people can like it...but, it's better...completely individual opinion.
Recently, I got AUDEZE CRBN, for jazz and classical music heaven.
Huh, I couldn't even imagine what was coming.

Composer, for me, with these three, has nothing to offer that would make me want to buy a pair, ever.

Cheers!

It's true we all hear things differently.
But as I recall you only heard the composer at a big audio show. Not quite the same as getting to audition the other headphones you mention at home in with your gear.

Having lived with the Composer for months, plus having had more than 20 friends listen to the Composer back to back with the HD800S, and SR007. The composer wins. In fact with my friends the HD800S came consistently in 3rd place. Which I kind of agree with.

Why? Because the bass response is just not comparable. The HD800S has better bass response than people give it credit for, at least it is clean and tight. But it does extend that low and isn't linear with the mids and treble response. Of course YMMV, but I have yet to meet someone who auditions it in my very silent house with my gear who says otherwise. The Icon Audio amp I have is famously great with the HD800S.

The HD800S has the best treble response but the composer is close and not as peaky. The mids on the composer are just as good, the HD800 is slightly more liquid the composer a hair more resolving. The bass response with the composer is simply amongst the very, very best of any open back headphone.

For me, with the right amp (which defintiely means not the sennheiser make everything unnaturally smooth and diffuse amp) the HD800 & S are really the best for symphony and chamber. The Audeze is a great headphone, but just not in the same league as HD800 for symphony. Symphony is where the big soundstage of the HD800 and S are really first class and no other headphone can match them. Of course this is just how I hear it. and again YMMV

 

[fidgeraldo]

But as I recall you only heard the composer at a big audio show.

Making headphones and particular sounds in them is not a contest to achieve perfect sound; there is no such thing.
There is no winning one over another; there is only what you hear against what another person hears.
It's not a 100 m race.
Saying Composer wins over other headphones is childish.

Is red wine better than white wine? Is Merlot better than Sauvignon?
It's like saying Merlot wins over Sauvignon because 10 of your friends liked Merlot more.

Yes, I auditioned at the Hi-Fi show. You remember that, but do you also remember that I auditioned Utopia on the same day (guess not)?
Before that, I auditioned HD800S and HD820 in the same manner.
The impression Sennheiser left on me at the store is nothing different from my impression at home.

I love it. At the same show, I was impressed and out of my mind with Utopia, and Composer left me dull, dissapointed.

Listen...I have nothing against you and your love for Composer...

I don't, and that's it. I can try it a million times again...but it's the sound that doesn't affect me...
And the sound is not the only thing I wasn't excited about with the Composer...

BTW...the only headphones that left the same impression on me as the Composer were the AKG K702.
Sorry...if you can't accept that some folks don't prefer Composer...

I don't need the same bass; you are talking in every headphone...

Sennheiser HD800S have a beautiful and perfect bass for their tuning.

On the Composer thread, one thing is repeated like a broken record - you do not need a special high-end amplifier to enjoy it to its full potential...
what are you saying, now, that it's not true?

Enjoy Composer...I am blissful with Audeze CRBN and other headphones that I have.

"Symphony is where the big soundstage of the HD800 and S are really first class and no other headphone can match them."
Big soundstage??? I have speakers for this matter

Cheers!

 

[piglet]

I see some discussion comparing the Sennheiser HD800S with the Austrian Audio Composer and other headphones. Well I haven't heard the Composer so I can't comment on that.

The reason why I'm chipping in is to mention the importance, I think, of the DAC/amp in all this (or the amp, if you are using an analogue source). I recently acquired a Meier Audio Corda Soul Mk II, for some years I have been using a Meridian Prime, with its special power supply. The Meridian is an excellent DAC/amp, you will see it highly praised by many that have heard it. However the HD800S are transformed by the Corda Soul Mk II and many of the popular characterisations of the HD800S, such that they are good for classical and jazz but not much else, these are no longer true. I'm hoping to write a review of the Corda Soul Mk II in the coming weeks but one of the things about using it is just how remarkably good the HD800S cans are with it. That experience of the instruments (or sounds) being small and set in this semicircle just in front of your head, like a miniature orchestra, well that is really gone. Yes, the superb imaging is all in place but now the instruments/sounds take up their full size and will inhabit many locations fore and aft. There's much more as well, but I will save that for the review.

 

[jamesjames]

I had both side by side for almost a year until a week ago (traded in the HE1000SE). If you want wide soundstage and precise imaging, the Senn has it. But the Hifiman does have some pluses. HE1000SE's tonality is better suited to EDM or the like - more tilted to sub bass and upper treble.

The HD800S certainly seems more realistic to me - although the HE1000SE presents a very spacious image, I think. I no longer own it or the Susvara but did have them both for some time. This tended to confirm for me that the Susvara is relatively rolled-off at higher frequencies - and really is quite warm - although not to the same extent as most planars (including the Elite). I can understand why some might find the HE1000SE superior to the Susvara - but I found it the most 'synthetic' of the planars I've heard in terms of (I suspect) uncontrolled high frequency energy. The HE1000SE does respond well to crossfeed I think - which does tame it to some extent.

 

[jamesjames]

It's true we all hear things differently.
But as I recall you only heard the composer at a big audio show. Not quite the same as getting to audition the other headphones you mention at home in with your gear.

Having lived with the Composer for months, plus having had more than 20 friends listen to the Composer back to back with the HD800S, and SR007. The composer wins. In fact with my friends the HD800S came consistently in 3rd place. Which I kind of agree with.

Why? Because the bass response is just not comparable. The HD800S has better bass response than people give it credit for, at least it is clean and tight. But it does extend that low and isn't linear with the mids and treble response. Of course YMMV, but I have yet to meet someone who auditions it in my very silent house with my gear who says otherwise. The Icon Audio amp I have is famously great with the HD800S.

The HD800S has the best treble response but the composer is close and not as peaky. The mids on the composer are just as good, the HD800 is slightly more liquid the composer a hair more resolving. The bass response with the composer is simply amongst the very, very best of any open back headphone.

For me, with the right amp (which defintiely means not the sennheiser make everything unnaturally smooth and diffuse amp) the HD800 & S are really the best for symphony and chamber. The Audeze is a great headphone, but just not in the same league as HD800 for symphony. Symphony is where the big soundstage of the HD800 and S are really first class and no other headphone can match them. Of course this is just how I hear it. and again YMMV

It's interesting to see the reference to the SR-007 here - which tends to polarize opinion I think. I find both the SR-009S and the SR-700MkII more to my taste - with the SR-007 seeming too 'diffuse' in its presentation. My experience with amps (with many phones) is that they don't drastically alter the underlying character of the presentation - a decent amp will I think give a good indication of the sound. I agree searching for some synergy is certainly worthwhile if you have the time/money. But I feel good phones generally sound pretty good on any decent amp. I find the main exception relates to low impedance dynamic drivers, which can be significantly affected in terms of spectral balance by high impedance amps. While I'm not generally interested in EQ, I do find crossfeed helpful - and prefer the analogue implementations I've encountered. Re the ADX5000, I've been most impressed by its lithe, articulate and extended bottom end. I've tended to think of it as a more evolved version of the HD800 - moving slightly away from the HD800S. For those who prefer the HD800, it seems to me well worth trying. I initially preferred the HD800, and find the ADX5000 quite beguiling ...

 

[Kunal1991]

Just so’s you knows, Edm sounds just fine to me. Matter of fact bass shines through and most imagery is provided by hd800S snappy mids. I’d say hd800S excels at Edm. But imo and my system.

That chain you've got going into your HD800S Im shocked it can scale so high. I think the headphone itself is one of your more "budget" buys.
Could you share some pics? I'm curious at how you managed to zero in on everything.