[chesebert]

That chain you've got going into your HD800S Im shocked it can scale so high. I think the headphone itself is one of your more "budget" buys.
Could you share some pics? I'm curious at how you managed to zero in on everything.

Easy. Run 800S balanced out of CFA3 and source with good vinyl or musical dac.

 

[Whazzzup]

That chain you've got going into your HD800S Im shocked it can scale so high. I think the headphone itself is one of your more "budget" buys.
Could you share some pics? I'm curious at how you managed to zero in on everything.

Started mid fi but )

 

[piglet]

That chain you've got going into your HD800S Im shocked it can scale so high. I think the headphone itself is one of your more "budget" buys.
Could you share some pics? I'm curious at how you managed to zero in on everything.

I recently acquired a Meier Audio Corda Soul Mk II DAC/amp. I had been using a Meridian Prime with its special power supply for some years. What really stands out for me is how the HD800S scales up in quality with the higher quality DAC/amp. It's inherent characteristics are still in place but it really does sound magnificent in so many ways.

I'd be interested to see a comparison of HD800S with a very high quality DAC/amp and some more expensive cans, maybe by Focal or maybe another, paired with a more normal, but still high, quality DAC/amp. Interesting to see the same amount of money deployed on each setup.

 

[Kunal1991]

I recently acquired a Meier Audio Corda Soul Mk II DAC/amp. I had been using a Meridian Prime with its special power supply for some years. What really stands out for me is how the HD800S scales up in quality with the higher quality DAC/amp. It's inherent characteristics are still in place but it really does sound magnificent in so many ways.

I'd be interested to see a comparison of HD800S with a very high quality DAC/amp and some more expensive cans, maybe by Focal or maybe another, paired with a more normal, but still high, quality DAC/amp. Interesting to see the same amount of money deployed on each setup.

Here is another $20,000+ chain feeding the HD800S. It really does scale.



The only other headphones I know to scale consistently like this are the Susvara.

 

[Whazzzup]

every step i took, it scaled. From feeding it hugo to.... the evolving rig of today. Oh and im planning a dac upgrade maybe next year, just to see where this hd800s can scale to.

 

[shabta]

Making headphones and particular sounds in them is not a contest to achieve perfect sound; there is no such thing.
There is no winning one over another; there is only what you hear against what another person hears.
It's not a 100 m race.
Saying Composer wins over other headphones is childish.

Is red wine better than white wine? Is Merlot better than Sauvignon?
It's like saying Merlot wins over Sauvignon because 10 of your friends liked Merlot more.

Yes, I auditioned at the Hi-Fi show. You remember that, but do you also remember that I auditioned Utopia on the same day (guess not)?
Before that, I auditioned HD800S and HD820 in the same manner.
The impression Sennheiser left on me at the store is nothing different from my impression at home.

I love it. At the same show, I was impressed and out of my mind with Utopia, and Composer left me dull, dissapointed.

Listen...I have nothing against you and your love for Composer...

I don't, and that's it. I can try it a million times again...but it's the sound that doesn't affect me...
And the sound is not the only thing I wasn't excited about with the Composer...

BTW...the only headphones that left the same impression on me as the Composer were the AKG K702.
Sorry...if you can't accept that some folks don't prefer Composer...

I don't need the same bass; you are talking in every headphone...

Sennheiser HD800S have a beautiful and perfect bass for their tuning.

On the Composer thread, one thing is repeated like a broken record - you do not need a special high-end amplifier to enjoy it to its full potential...
what are you saying, now, that it's not true?

Enjoy Composer...I am blissful with Audeze CRBN and other headphones that I have.

"Symphony is where the big soundstage of the HD800 and S are really first class and no other headphone can match them."
Big soundstage??? I have speakers for this matter

Cheers!

Dude you have a super power! I am not being sarcastic. It's just really rare that someone can know so accurately in show conditions what headphones are going to work for them, Hats off to you!

FWIW I am not trying to convince tyou of anything. Have been around headfi for a while now, it seems like a place where people enthusiatically share their opinions/findings/etc. I haven't said anything about the composer and amplifiers, I don't know what is bothering you about my talking about the composer. I think you might want to read what I wrote another time... I also didn't talk about winning in some sort of absolute sense. I was clearly talking about in my house with my system and my friends, there was a universal consensus amongst more then 20 people that the composer was better than the HD800 and that the SR007 was too. In that sense, it won the poll. Sorry my use of prose is clumsy sometimes. It's weird because in real life I am a published author, but I become quite lazy here on headfi.

In general, I would not get too upset about people saying the same thing over and over. That is my general experience on headfi on nearly every thread. So if you find it annoying, perhaps there are other forums that will please you.

I do think the HD800S is a marvelous headphone, and quite a bargain relative to the market. It's not saying something bad about it to share that two headphones that cost considerably more were a little better. Naturally not everyone agrees with me. I think that's a good thing. I am wrong about stuff sometimes.

I hope you are having a really wonderful day.

Cheers!

 

[shabta]

I see some discussion comparing the Sennheiser HD800S with the Austrian Audio Composer and other headphones. Well I haven't heard the Composer so I can't comment on that.

The reason why I'm chipping in is to mention the importance, I think, of the DAC/amp in all this (or the amp, if you are using an analogue source). I recently acquired a Meier Audio Corda Soul Mk II, for some years I have been using a Meridian Prime, with its special power supply. The Meridian is an excellent DAC/amp, you will see it highly praised by many that have heard it. However the HD800S are transformed by the Corda Soul Mk II and many of the popular characterisations of the HD800S, such that they are good for classical and jazz but not much else, these are no longer true. I'm hoping to write a review of the Corda Soul Mk II in the coming weeks but one of the things about using it is just how remarkably good the HD800S cans are with it. That experience of the instruments (or sounds) being small and set in this semicircle just in front of your head, like a miniature orchestra, well that is really gone. Yes, the superb imaging is all in place but now the instruments/sounds take up their full size and will inhabit many locations fore and aft. There's much more as well, but I will save that for the review.

Jan Meier is an amazing engineer. I still have a Stagedac and if you feed it by coaxial it is as good or better than lots of modern dacs.

I am not surprised by your results with the Corda Soul. For years Jan has tuned his amps using the HD800S, so it's not surprising his statement TOTL dac amp makes the HD800S shine.

BTW I don't think that HD800S is only good for Classical. I just think that for classical iit s among the very best there is, only a very few headphones are really at that level or better.

 

[shabta]

It's interesting to see the reference to the SR-007 here - which tends to polarize opinion I think. I find both the SR-009S and the SR-700MkII more to my taste - with the SR-007 seeming too 'diffuse' in its presentation. My experience with amps (with many phones) is that they don't drastically alter the underlying character of the presentation - a decent amp will I think give a good indication of the sound. I agree searching for some synergy is certainly worthwhile if you have the time/money. But I feel good phones generally sound pretty good on any decent amp. I find the main exception relates to low impedance dynamic drivers, which can be significantly affected in terms of spectral balance by high impedance amps. While I'm not generally interested in EQ, I do find crossfeed very important - and prefer the analogue implementations I've encountered. Re the ADX5000, I've been most impressed by its lithe, articulate and extended bottom end. I've tended to think of it as a more evolved version of the HD800 - moving slightly away from the HD800S. For those who prefer the HD800, it seems to me well worth trying. I initially preferred the HD800, and find the ADX5000 quite beguiling ...

Maybe we use the word diffuse very differently? To me the problem with the SR-009S is that it is too diffuse and certainly the HD800S is more diffuse that the much more meaty and dense SR007. But I have kept both HD800S and 007 since they are very complementary.

I am intrigued by your descriptions of the ADX5000, I have a feeling based on what you have been saying about it that I would like it quite a bit.

I do agree mostly with your point about amps, except that both the SR007 and Susvara in my experience sound quite a bit more lively and extended when properly (and usually expensively) amped.

 

[SecretAgent]

I'll have to scale my bank account in order to share my insights with you floks

 

[chesebert]

Maybe we use the word diffuse very differently? To me the problem with the SR-009S is that it is too diffuse and certainly the HD800S is more diffuse that the much more meaty and dense SR007. But I have kept both HD800S and 007 since they are very complementary.

I am intrigued by your descriptions of the ADX5000, I have a feeling based on what you have been saying about it that I would like it quite a bit.

I do agree mostly with your point about amps, except that both the SR007 and Susvara in my experience sound quite a bit more lively and extended when properly (and usually expensively) amped.

800S can sound just as dense and meaty as 007 on T2 with the right amp and dac. Aperio is my fav estat and 007 and T2 would be my second favorite. Composer has a lot of potential - I don’t know how high those will scale but they were a pleasant surprise at both ends. Although for mid heavy music I think 800S still edges out. ADX5000 was a bit disappointing - mid and treble didn’t sound quite right from the Luxman amp.

Sorry about the stream of consciousness.

 

[shabta]

800S can sound just as dense and meaty as 007 on T2 with the right amp and dac. Aperio is my fav estat and 007 and T2 would be my second favorite. Composer has a lot of potential - I don’t know how high those will scale but they were a pleasant surprise at both ends. Although for mid heavy music I think 800S still edges out. ADX5000 was a bit disappointing - mid and treble didn’t sound quite right from the Luxman amp.

Sorry about the stream of consciousness.

I have heard the cfa3 but only with susvara. That was a fantastic combo. I can imagine that it also does something special to the hd800S. And t2 and sr007 makes the 007 sound like a different headphone.

Edit: I am still trying to figure out if the composer scales in the classic headfi use of the term. Right now I'd say that it is hyper revealing of the chain that feeds it.

 

[XERO1]

Just saw this little tidbit at WHAT-HIFI in an article about the upcoming new releases that will debut at High-End Munich 2024.

Sennheiser
The German headphone brand will be launching "a new addition to its audiophile profile" – that could mean anything, but we have our fingers crossed for a new wired headphone in the vein of the HD 800S range, perhaps? It's a wild guess for now.
Hall 1, B14

https://www.whathifi.com/news/high-end-munich-2024-preview

So it looks like something audiophile-ish is going to be announced, but at this point it's unknown if it's even a headphone, so definitely don't get yer hopes up.

 

[jamesjames]

Maybe we use the word diffuse very differently? To me the problem with the SR-009S is that it is too diffuse and certainly the HD800S is more diffuse that the much more meaty and dense SR007. But I have kept both HD800S and 007 since they are very complementary.

I am intrigued by your descriptions of the ADX5000, I have a feeling based on what you have been saying about it that I would like it quite a bit.

I do agree mostly with your point about amps, except that both the SR007 and Susvara in my experience sound quite a bit more lively and extended when properly (and usually expensively) amped.

Yes, I wouldn't be surprised to find we're using some of these terms bit differently - I find it's hard to convey the sense of what I mean at the best of times - let alone when I'm trying to describe how things sound! Re the SR-007, I think I see what you mean, and would agree there's a density (?) about it that the others don't have. When I wrote 'diffuse' I had in mind a certain lack of immediacy (?) so far as attack (and decay) are concerned. Individual contributions (particularly in complex passages) seem less clearly differentiated in dynamic terms. Detail seems less crisp, more diffused through a more even, blended whole. That said, I actually think some diffuseness (?) or blending is necessary to convey a proper sense of a natural acoustic - so it's a matter of balance for me. I find the HD800S has a different but quite pronounced 'distancing' effect, which helps with blending without losing an appropriate separation of contributions (to my ear). I agree the SR-009S is like the HD800S in many respects - but I guess it's the relative lack of dynamic shading (with all e-stats) that remains an issue for me - which I'm inclined to think affects timbre. And I do agree it's worth searching for synergy with amps - and that improvements can be significant. My reservations are really directed to more sweeping suggestions that amps can fundamentally - miraculously (?) - alter the character of phones.

Re the ADX5000, I don't think I can add much to what I've written, other than mention that it seems to me to recapture the thing that struck me so forcefully when I first came across the HD800 years ago: there's just so much texture! The HD800S trades this off to some extent I think to achieve some improvements in other areas. The HD800S seems smoother to me, perhaps more refined, and perhaps more natural. But it has lost some texture. The ADX5000 seems to me to push extreme detail at both ends of the spectrum, while managing to avoid audible peaks. While there appears to be some measurable resonance, it sounds very clean and extended to me - but I'm always interested in how it strikes others who genuinely like the HD800 line.

I'd be interested in hearing more about why you think the Composer is less good than the HD800S with classical music. Is it more about detail, or timbre, or other things? I had been thinking the additional power in the lower frequencies would probably be a good thing - and my brief listen to some other AA phones suggests they are particularly successful in avoiding resonance - the CSD charts are the cleanest I've seen. I found the AKG K812 presentation through lower frequencies to be better than the HD800S (my concerns with the AKG relate to the resonance through the presence band - although I think they're very nice phones).

 

[shabta]

Yes, I wouldn't be surprised to find we're using some of these terms bit differently - I find it's hard to convey the sense of what I mean at the best of times - let alone when I'm trying to describe how things sound! Re the SR-007, I think I see what you mean, and would agree there's a density (?) about it that the others don't have. When I wrote 'diffuse' I had in mind a certain lack of immediacy (?) so far as attack (and decay) are concerned. Individual contributions (particularly in complex passages) seem less clearly differentiated in dynamic terms. Detail seems less crisp, more diffused through a more even, blended whole. That said, I actually think some diffuseness (?) or blending is necessary to convey a proper sense of a natural acoustic - so it's a matter of balance for me. I find the HD800S has a different but quite pronounced 'distancing' effect, which helps with blending without losing an appropriate separation of contributions (to my ear). I agree the SR-009S is like the HD800S in many respects - but I guess it's the relative lack of dynamic shading (with all e-stats) that remains an issue for me - which I'm inclined to think affects timbre. And I do agree it's worth searching for synergy with amps - and that improvements can be significant. My reservations are really directed to more sweeping suggestions that amps can fundamentally - miraculously (?) - alter the character of phones.

Re the ADX5000, I don't think I can add much to what I've written, other than mention that it seems to me to recapture the thing that struck me so forcefully when I first came across the HD800 years ago: there's just so much texture! The HD800S trades this off to some extent I think to achieve some improvements in other areas. The HD800S seems smoother to me, perhaps more refined, and perhaps more natural. But it has lost some texture. The ADX5000 seems to me to push extreme detail at both ends of the spectrum, while managing to avoid audible peaks. While there appears to be some measurable resonance, it sounds very clean and extended to me - but I'm always interested in how it strikes others who genuinely like the HD800 line.

I'd be interested in hearing more about why you think the Composer is less good than the HD800S with classical music. Is it more about detail, or timbre, or other things? I had been thinking the additional power in the lower frequencies would probably be a good thing - and my brief listen to some other AA phones suggests they are particularly successful in avoiding resonance - the CSD charts are the cleanest I've seen. I found the AKG K812 presentation through lower frequencies to be better than the HD800S (my concerns with the AKG relate to the resonance through the presence band - although I think they're very nice phones).

I think we are more or less on the same page about amps, and differences between heaedphones. As so often is the case negotiating semantics is the tricky part

When the SR009 came out, I already had the HD800. Although they don't sound exactly the same, they have more in common than not. The HD800 was like a dynamic SR009 and vice versa. So I was more interested in the nororiusly hard to drive SR007 as a complement. For years, until the susvara I mostly didn't see that Planar's did much that the SR007 didn't do. (Recording Engineer Bob Katz even got a LCD 4 and SR007 to sound almost identical with eq). Some had a more lit up treble ( but like the HE1000 had tonality issues). But mostly they had a mid bass hump that was pretty similar to the SR007. Yes they slammed a bit harder but at the expense of other qualities. I thought a lot about the Susvara, but when I did extended audtions, it seems that I had to buy a fantastically expensive amp to be satisfied, So the total cost of ownership bothered me. Then last december I heard the composer and for the first time in years I was seduced into buying a new headphone.

It's a shame that although the hobby has become overall much more measuremnet focused, we've forgotten all about CSD plots. The HD800 and S have a spectacularly measuring one. I am curious to see how the AA Composer measures, I expect good things.

 

[shabta]

I'd be interested in hearing more about why you think the Composer is less good than the HD800S with classical music. Is it more about detail, or timbre, or other things? I had been thinking the additional power in the lower frequencies would probably be a good thing - and my brief listen to some other AA phones suggests they are particularly successful in avoiding resonance - the CSD charts are the cleanest I've seen. I found the AKG K812 presentation through lower frequencies to be better than the HD800S (my concerns with the AKG relate to the resonance through the presence band - although I think they're very nice phones).

The Composer is a very good headphone with classical music. But the HD800S just has a slightly more refined treble response. On other kinds of music you don't notice it as much. @chesebert likes the mid range on the HD800S better, and most classical music is mixed to be pretty mid centric. I suppose this is in part to do with the hearing due age of the average classical mucic listener. I find the Composer and HD800S both have a great mid range but they are a bit different. I can certainly understand why chesebert likes the HD800S better for mids but personally I can't pick a winner. But I do think on classical music the way the mid range is rendered on the HD800S could be the reason I prefer it for classical. I also think that because most classical music is so mid centric focused, the bass qualities of the Composer are not as important. Since I listen to a lot of older recordings that are analog transfers to digital, they are almost by definition more mid range focused (I don't think when young audiophiles say something sounds analogue they actually mean that, it's more that they mean it doesn't sound like it has digital artifacts or is smooth and organic sounding, but analog recordings for all kinds of reasons are much less extended at the top and bottom than modern recordings).But let's face it unless there is a lot of tympani there isn't as much need for a deep downlow sub bass kind of headphone in classical music.

For symphony in particular the width and depth of the HD800S soundstage makes it the only headphone that I can truly say symphony sounds ok. I really don't think headphones are not particularly good for symphonic music, I will always prefer a good two channel setup. I don't know if it is still true but in europe lots of small classical recording labels used the HD800 for mixing and mastering. When sennheiser first launched the HD800S part of the rational of continuing the HD800 was to service the pro market. But I digress...