[Ghoostknight]

Hello,

i know, stange post but please keep reading...

This post i made yesterday : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-ground-box-thread.968372/post-18100727
and actually a few more and some research, might make a pretty clear case why we might hear/feel differences with (piezoelectric) Crystals beside our Hifi

I posted it here, well knowingly no one in this sub forum will probably actually care, because i think this is definitely a topic that should be double checked because of some thought i had...

--------------------------------

Now long story short, from my research i explain things shortly like this, if im incorrect in something feel free to correct me

Piezoelectric crystals will produce negative ions as one of these factors are in place:
1. electricity/electromagnet field
2. mechanical stress
3. heat

also keep in mind these "factors" need to be "oscillating/changing", so they cant be "static" or it doesnt "keep triggering" the piezoelectric effect which can produce negative ions

--------------------------------

The thing with Crystals and Hifi is, we can either apply electricity(or better a electromagnet field) to the crystals depending on where we place them but we can also induce mechanical stress with our speakers/sound

best example for taking this a step up is, i still have the idea of filling a power distribution unit up with some crystals after finishing the wiring, 230V have quite powerful electromagnetic fields

---------------------------------

Also a good video i just found on the Topic:

---------------------------------

i might get some ion detector device later on... For now... this is a test method i picked up in another video:

1. i will be placing tourmaline and phenit crystals on top of a piece of paper on top of each speaker
2. two "control" sheet of papers on the other end of the room

Now in theory, if negative ions are produced, the pieces of paper placed under the negative ion generator should be more dirty after some time, because the piece of paper will charge up with negative ions attracting (positive charged) particles in the air

i will do picture in either 1 or 2 weeks depending on how long i listen to music (since mechanical stress is the piezoelectric trigger here, when i listen to music)

----------------------------------

Do with this what you will, i just wanna document some research here that might actually tell part of why people might expierence differences with crystals in combination with Hifi

Also -if- negative ions are beneficial in any way i dont really wanna discuss here, showing things make a "actual" difference is the goal here

 

[Ghoostknight]

Also -if- negative ions are beneficial in any way i dont really wanna discuss here

Having said that

we might still can discuss wether for example.... "charging the earth connection of crystal grounding boxes with negative ions" will have an actual effect on noise or something along those lines... since these induced negative ions might/will counteract positive ions on the earth connection...

 

[castleofargh]

Oh cool, a snake oil thread! I guess you needed to lose all credibility, so you made this.

 

[Ghoostknight]

Oh cool, a snake oil thread! I guess you needed to lose all credibility, so you made this.

i just wanna proof whether negative ions get produced, when crystals get used like some audiophiles do, you can spin the topic as far you want tho...

https://www.healthline.com/health/negative-ions

 

[Quazar]

I recommend that you listen to hi-fi outdoors in storms, lightning.
Then there are plenty of negative ions...

 

[Ghoostknight]

I recommend that you listen to hi-fi outdoors in storms, lightning.
Then there are plenty of negative ions...

Well the thing is i like the "atmosphere" (i dont mean rain or cold here...) of stormy weather... and by the article above humid days are rich with positive ions... which i hate, so there is that...

why not make everyday a nice stormy day ?

 

[bigshot]

I knew a crazy old woman that claimed that her TV emitted strange rays and the only way to fix it was to put boxes of loam on top and all around it.

 

[castleofargh]

I knew a crazy old woman that claimed that her TV emitted strange rays and the only way to fix it was to put boxes of loam on top and all around it.

Or even better protection from this classic product:

 

[bigshot]

Maybe crochet like a tea cozy!

 

[BS5711]

Hello,

i know, stange post but please keep reading...

This post i made yesterday : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-ground-box-thread.968372/post-18100727
and actually a few more and some research, might make a pretty clear case why we might hear/feel differences with (piezoelectric) Crystals beside our Hifi

I posted it here, well knowingly no one in this sub forum will probably actually care, because i think this is definitely a topic that should be double checked because of some thought i had...

--------------------------------

Now long story short, from my research i explain things shortly like this, if im incorrect in something feel free to correct me

Piezoelectric crystals will produce negative ions as one of these factors are in place:
1. electricity/electromagnet field
2. mechanical stress
3. heat

also keep in mind these "factors" need to be "oscillating/changing", so they cant be "static" or it doesnt "keep triggering" the piezoelectric effect which can produce negative ions

--------------------------------

The thing with Crystals and Hifi is, we can either apply electricity(or better a electromagnet field) to the crystals depending on where we place them but we can also induce mechanical stress with our speakers/sound

best example for taking this a step up is, i still have the idea of filling a power distribution unit up with some crystals after finishing the wiring, 230V have quite powerful electromagnetic fields

---------------------------------

Also a good video i just found on the Topic:

---------------------------------

i might get some ion detector device later on... For now... this is a test method i picked up in another video:

1. i will be placing tourmaline and phenit crystals on top of a piece of paper on top of each speaker
2. two "control" sheet of papers on the other end of the room

Now in theory, if negative ions are produced, the pieces of paper placed under the negative ion generator should be more dirty after some time, because the piece of paper will charge up with negative ions attracting (positive charged) particles in the air

i will do picture in either 1 or 2 weeks depending on how long i listen to music (since mechanical stress is the piezoelectric trigger here, when i listen to music)

----------------------------------

Do with this what you will, i just wanna document some research here that might actually tell part of why people might expierence differences with crystals in combination with Hifi

Also -if- negative ions are beneficial in any way i dont really wanna discuss here, showing things make a "actual" difference is the goal here

The other alternative to why people perceive sound differences lies in that grey mass between your ears.

With respect and I do mean this genuinely, you would be better off studying the psychology of human perception rather that some BS that you got onto because someone else talked about and it piqued your curiosity.

Turn your efforts and your enquiring mind to something that will genuinely help understand audio then come back and tell us why you hear differences between all the stuff you claim to.

 

[Ghoostknight]

The other alternative to why people perceive sound differences lies in that grey mass between your ears.

Both a possibility i guess

With respect and I do mean this genuinely, you would be better off studying the psychology of human perception rather that some BS that you got onto because someone else talked about and it piqued your curiosity.

Well, specially looking into this and seeing how people/doctors talk about people's behaivors like actual "facts" made me think otherwise,
again, with pretty much everything around humans, it might give a good simplification of the whole thing but you cant tell me someone can fully explain how another person feels or why they acted like this and that or how the brain works overall "exactly"

tho, overall for science its great to categorize all the edge cases into placebo or whatever, till they maybe get more attention in the future...

Turn your efforts and your enquiring mind to something that will genuinely help understand audio then come back and tell us why you hear differences between all the stuff you claim to.

well i can just speak for myself but if you hear differences in dacs, you will hear/expierence differences with (the right) crystals if they are used right and i truly believe that the esoteric crystal people come from a similar point, even tho there a much theorys and what not that are only can be bull

i can also say the effect is easly categorized as placebo, and maybe if you believe in these things the placebo is a little greater, and if you dont believe in it you may easly ignore the effects but after extensively playing around with the tourmaline chinch caps, they have a -definitive- effect on sound reproduction, thats where im coming from and why i write this crap.... i just wanna find the reason WHY ... and i dont believe its psychological, specially because i just dived deeper into this topic and some esoteric parts of it because of my research...

maybe we audiophiles live all in our own world ... tho with different dacs and tweaks its a pretty consistent changing world imo.... so if the placebo is that strong... why not just feed it?

 

[BS5711]

My take on what you say is that you are aware that perception of sound isn't always real and you have some notion of other things like your crystals possibly being able to alter sound but knowing a little about both aspects your considered conclusion is that the known impact of other stimuli, placebo, outside influences, expectation bias, mood etc, all known facts that are very easily observed for ourselves, is less likely than the out there notions about crystals etc actually making any difference.

See to me that is just the incorrect conclusion, one is known fact, the other has no known scientific basis but you prefer to believe that over demonstrable fact.

 

[Ghoostknight]

My take on what you say is that you are aware that perception of sound isn't always real and you have some notion of other things like your crystals possibly being able to alter sound but knowing a little about both aspects your considered conclusion is that the known impact of other stimuli, placebo, outside influences, expectation bias, mood etc, all known facts that are very easily observed for ourselves, is less likely than the out there notions about crystals etc actually making any difference.

Yes..

the only real big hint for me to believe in what i hear is how consistent the changes are, there wouldnt be "oh this sounds ALWAYS bass heavy" or "this always bright" to simplify things here.. you would go actually crazy because nothing sounds the same from day to day imo... and there is no reason to persuit "made up randomness"

See to me that is just the incorrect conclusion, one is known fact, the other has no known scientific basis but you prefer to believe that over demonstrable fact.

Lets just keep the topic on what its actually about... whether crystals used right produce negative ions because from what i read there are some studys about negative ions and they are pretty much real...

we can also talk about whether we need to care about negative ions...

 

[bigshot]

Bias is remarkably consistent.

 

[BS5711]

Yes..

the only real big hint for me to believe in what i hear is how consistent the changes are, there wouldnt be "oh this sounds ALWAYS bass heavy" or "this always bright" to simplify things here.. you would go actually crazy because nothing sounds the same from day to day imo... and there is no reason to persuit "made up randomness"


Lets just keep the topic on what its actually about... whether crystals used right produce negative ions because from what i read there are some studys about negative ions and they are pretty much real...

we can also talk about whether we need to care about negative ions...

Thanks for the honesty.

I do think that false perception of sound changes is utterly central to the topic of crystals changing sound because it is a very obvious alternative explanation to guys hearing things that science doesn't explain.

You can't shut down one side of a very rational discussion because it diminishes the logic of the other explanation, that is the very essence of proper scientific method and understanding.